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Discussion Starter #1
Most of this will come from my thread on M4carbine.net That thread shows everything done so far with the pre production model that I have. Feel free to ask questions on it and Templar and I will do our best to answer them for you.

I'll say this much, if you are looking for a well thought out piston upper for the AR system with quality parts and the backing of a down to earth honest and knowledgeable guy, take a serious look at this upper.(PD15)

Mark

I'll add to this as time goes on, what I need to do is make a summary of rounds fired etc.

Ok, I'm customer #1 with this upper, this one shown is a pre production model and future units will have some changes that are fit and finish related.

All piston related parts will be hard chromed, the bright area's(left unfinished to show detail on purpose) will be cut and finished at DD during production, and the rail cut outs for a normal FSB won't be as large, they will be just big enough to allow the cross pinning of the gas block.

I first saw this when the owner came up to the M4C staff and mod class to show us the proto type 11.5 and 16" models. We hammered them pretty hard and they kept on working. I decided then that I was getting one and I'm stoked now to have it. My thanks to the owner to bringing this into production and dealing with me. I deal with alot of people in my line of work. I can say that you can deal with ADC in complete confidence. He does know his business, a pleasure to speak with and will stand behind whatever he does. He will be around soon to add some technical data and answer some questions that are tech related.

I will be doing some testing with this with various types of ammunition and magazines. Right now, I've put on the LMT front and Troy rear.

On the 16" model, you have two choices on the gas plug, 5.56 and .223. It's suggested that you start with the 5.56(half moon cut out on the plug) and that should be fine unless you are shooting some underpowered loadings. If you need to, push the gas plug retaining pin from left to right with a cartridge and rotate the plug so the correct hole is showing at the 12 o'clock. The retaining pin is captive(it's a rear take down pin with detent-talk about keeping things simple!) If I remember correctly, the 11.5 has three, 5.56, suppressor and cut off.

Barrel is chromed lined M4 profiled with 1n7 twist, has M4 cuts in the extension and upper.

Well, enough for now, enjoy the pics and more to follow!

Obvious date snafu with my camera

ADC [email:3d1cmhoj][email protected][/email:3d1cmhoj]


Mark













Ok, I took her down to get zero done and do some shooting! It was hot, hot, hot. Knowing that the barrel would be getting a tad warm, I put on the Magpul panels. With bare hands, they kept the paws cool! Used Pmags and a couple older GI.

All ammunition today was PMC 55 ball, this is known to be dirty and slightly underpowered. We got her pretty hot, first six mags were under five minutes. I experiemented with four buffers, H(recommended) Standard car, Rifle and then 9mm. The gas setting was on the 5.56(small port) *see comment ref 9mm buffer. Obvious difference in felt recoil with this system, the other three shooters felt it was rather noticeable as well. Only malfunctions were with the 9mm buffer on the 5.56 setting, ran 100% with 9mm buffer on .223 setting. I could feel the 9mm buffer moving in the tube and I don't see any benefit to running this buffer unless that's all you have.

I ran the various buffers just so everyone could know it will run with them if that's all you have available

You can see the lube that's still there after all of the shooting. When I had to pull the gas plug to switch the gas setting, it was pretty hot. Using a rag, the gas plug was snug but was able to be removed and changed with finger pressure--and a rag:eek:

Pre delivery test fire- 20 rounds PP-100%

06-01-08-200 rounds, 5.56 gas, H buffer, FED AE ammo-100%

06-05-08-300 rounds, 5.56 gas, H buffer, PMC ammo-100%
same -100 rounds, 5.56 gas, Rifle buffer, PMC ammo-100%
same -20 rounds, 5.56 gas, 9mm buffer, PMC ammo, 5 short strokes
same -100 rounds, .223 gas, 9mm buffer, PMC ammo, 100%
same -30 rounds, 5.56 gas, Car buffer, PMC ammo-100%

770 total.


Mark

Nice and wet!--the same lube when I started!

Barrel got hot!




Dang, it's hot! I was mainly doing some pistol work and got in early to check zero. I was at 25 the other day and squared it away at 50 today. Just did some training with it otherwise.

I haven't cleaned anything on it, just checking the lube and adding if needed.

06-07-08- 100 rounds, 5.56 gas, H buffer, FED AE ammo-100%
same - 130 rounds, 5.56 gas, H buffer, PMC ammo-100%

1000 total

Mark




Got some more trigger time for some people, they're liking it!

Guy at work looked at it this morning and sent Arnold an email before shooting it and wants an 11.5! He had his share of barrel heating later and enjoyed it.

Haven't cleaned it, all is looking good.

Mark

06-10-08--100 rounds, 5.56 gas, H buffer, PMC ammo-100%

06-11-08--300 rounds, 5.56 gas, H buffer, XM193-100%

06-12-08--100 rounds, 5.56 gas, H buffer, PMC ammo-100%
06-12-08--100 rounds, 5.56 gas, H buffer, XM193--100%


1600 total


Shot some more this afternoon. Got a couple more shooters on it, well liked! Both felt that they stayed on target better, seemed to be less muzzle rise.

Found some of the Hornady steel cased ammo, that did well. Still no cleaning, gas plug comes out at the end(after it cools) with finger pressure.


06-13-08, 350 rounds, 5.56 gas, H buffer, XM193-100%
06-13-08, 50 rounds, 5.56 gas, H buffer, Hornady 55 grain Training(steel case)--100%

2000 total

Mark


Dinger and I gave it a workout today! The thing got frking hot! That frangible ran 100%, but it's filthy as can be. When I took out the plug, I could tell the difference as there was some crud that's normally not there. I haven't cleaned anything on it. The plug took some hard hands twisting to get out. I would like to point out that the unused port(in this case, .223) does not get clogged up.


06-19-08-200 rounds, 5.56 gas, H buffer M855-100%
06-19-08-100 rounds, 5.56 gas, H buffer, Fed frangible-100%
06-19-08- 50 rounds, 5.56 gas, H buffer, Win 69 grain match-100%
06-19-08, 650 rounds, 5.56 gas, H buffer, PMC-100%


3000 total

Mark

front end


No cleaning, 3K, same lube


Piston plug, dirty, but ok(frang is filthy!)




silver05;179785]I love the design. Has the Anti-tilt pads on the carrier eliminated the carrier tilt or just reduce it. Can we see some pics of the buffer tube after thousands of rounds? Also any update on a midlength system? Will you have a 14.5 midlength?

Thanks
I knew that I was forgetting something yesterday. No markings in the buffer tube, no marring, etc.

Arnold sent me a H2 buffer today, my error on what he recommended, that's in there now. The H buffer worked fine though. I also mounted an Aimpoint M2, get that zeroed in next trip. Still no cleaning, haven't added lube.

Mark

06-20-08-130 rounds, 5.56 gas, H buffer, PMC-100%
06-20-08- 10 rounds, 5.56 gas, H buffer, Win 69 match-100%
06-20-08- 10 rounds, 5.56 gas, H buffer, BHI 69 Blue box-100%

3150 total





I got the Aimpoint mounted and zeroed at 50. Attached the VCAS with the Daniel Defense rail mount and hard point to the LMT stock. Also mounted a G2L with the Vltor mount.

Arnold sent me a H2 buffer and I could really feel a difference with that. It's smooth as can be and virtually no felt recoil-you feel the action and that's it.

I worked on various drills today, mainly reloads, transitions and shooting on the move-on a mover. The Aimpoint really helped with that!

Gear wise, my plan is to either use a Larue or ADMmount for 1/3 irons and go with the Larue rear.

Note in the pic how with the DD sling and Vltor light mount, the gas plug pin is still accessible.

I ran back to back 6 mags, bare hands were no problems holding constant on the handguards and on the light mount/light. Just to satisfy curiousity with heat issues and mounted equipment

Mark

06-25-08, 350 rounds, 5.56 gas, H2 buffer, PMC-100%

3500 total



Filthy, but still kicking!


Close up of mounts-note the gas plug pin is still accessible while mounted


No lube or cleaning, 3500 rounds



I hit the range today to pull the trigger some more and do some training. I had some Black Hills 69 grain blue box and thought I would see how that ran in the ADC upper, I heard it was giving some other people problems.

The piston plug is getting pretty grungy, I had to tap her out, minimal effort. Please note that this one is not chromed and the new ones will be along with the bottom portion being relieved a tad as well. That should aleviate any issues. Still no lube or cleaning.

The G2L is still on there with the Vltor mount, no issues with heat.

07-03-08-100 rounds, 5.56 gas, H2 buffer, BHI 69gr Blue Box-100%
07-03-08-400 rounds, 5.56 gas, H2 buffer, PMC ball-100%

4000 total



Mark



Ok Wolf fans, you're in business! I picked up 200 rounds of the steel cased 55 grain ball to see how it does in this puppy.

I had it on 5.56 gas, H2 buffer, single loaded rounds, 4 of 5 did not lock it back. Switched over to 2.23 gas and 100% on the lock back.

Only had one malfunction with it and the Wolf, failed to fully eject a case, bolt caught it half way out of the port. Last mag was a dump, all good. You can tell the Wolf is a tad weak, has a different ejection pattern. Still chucked them 6-8 feet, different angle. Still no cleaning or lube.

07-09-08- 5 rounds-5.56 gas-H2 buffer-Wolf 55 gr steel case-no lock back
07-09-08-195 rounds, 2.23 gas-H2 buffer-Wolf 55 gr steel case 1 ft eject
07-09-08-400 rounds-5.56 gas-H2 buffer-PMC-100%

4600 total

Mark


:dance: :dance:

Woohoo! Finished up doing the 5000 round test without cleaning! I loaded up some mags out of the bucket, was a mix of AE 55 grain ball, XM193 ball and PMC 55 grain ball. All went well, no issues as expected!

When I started this, I cleaned the upper up, then lubed it with Miltec, I only added some during the first portion when I was showing it to alot of people. The lube would get rubbed off during inspection. For the last 3000 or so, I didn't add any.

The only malfunction I had with this upper was a fail to eject from Wolf steelcase, only one. I used a combination of magazines, Magpul P20, P30, Lancer, C Products aluminum and SS and a slew of aluminum GI mags of various brands.

I would say, that's pretty dang good! I abused this thing, getting it pretty hot to see if it would fail. Again, one malfunction out of all of that and I can blame it on the ammo(Wolf).

The equipment used: I would like to thanks Dr. Drake for the Magpul panels and Grant from G&R for the VCAS/DD sling mount/Vltor -Surefire G2L combo, I had the other stuff.

Lower-Stag with CMT LPK, H2 buffer, Magpul MIAD and LMT stock

Upper-ADC Piston with Daniel Defense 9.5 and Magpul XTM leggo's, Troy rear and LMT front, Vltor light mount and Surefire G2L, Daniel Defense push button sling swivel base and Vickers Tactical VCAS, the Aimpoint M2 was in the standard twist mount.

All gear perform 100% for me. Some pointers, you more than likely will need to Red Loctite the front site, there's a buttload of heat up there.

No heat issues with the DD railsystem and Magpul panels, as you saw, bare hands on the Vltor mount and rails.

Remember the first post, I tested various buffers, worked 100% with Car, H, H2 and rifle with 5.56 gas, had to use 2.23 gas with 9mm buffer.

More to follow--I'll clean it up to show it clean--with zero buffer wear

07-12-08, 520 rounds, 5.56 gas, H2 buffer(XM193/AE/PMC-100%

5120 rounds

Mark

Video, those rounds where at 15 yards, all on a 8" dot.











Got it cleaned up and took some pics to show some key points. I was simply amazed at the ease of cleaning the bolt carrier group! Take a close look at the one pic that shows the inside of the carrier--that's pretty much what it looked like before I took a Qtip(without solvent) to clean it. Everything just wiped right off on the parts.

Inside the receiver, looks like new.

Zero buffer tube wear.

The close up of the bolt carrier also shows the piston parts that receive the brunt of the gas. There's no pitting or wear on those parts. The cam pin does not have any of the marks that you would normally see on a DI gun. That indicates that there's less stress on the bolt itself.

Cleaning tips- A 20 gauge brush works great for the inside of the gas block and inside of the handguard, clean it dry and any loose carbon brushes right off. If you want to swab it, a large patch on a long rod with patch holder works great. A .30 bore brush cleans inside of the piston assembly. If you need to, fine steel wool to go over the piston parts, remember, these will be hard chromed. Other than that, normal chamber/bore cleaning is in order. Lubing of the bolt carrier group is the same, except you don't need lube where the gas rings are normally at.

A special note, although I shot this for 5000 rounds without taking care of it, it was more of a reasonable test of the system. I don't recommend doing this to any weapon system as a general practice as it's not a good idea to not maintain them properly.

Mark




 

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Discussion Starter #3
silkywilson said:
Very nice, any web site or pricing info?
Arnold is working on his site. His email is at the top of my post, that way you can arrange for one, he's close to having them ready.

To qoute him on the upper as seen, no sights, 1425. That of course includes the PD15 one piece bolt with anti tilt pads and the PD15 piston assembly and rail. Should come with ladder panels, but believe me, you want the Magpuls!

He will be offering a version with a 7" Troy rail that will be a tad cheaper.

This is not a retro fit diys'er kit.

Mark
 

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I've said it before, but I've been really impressed with these uppers.

Arnold is a hell of a knowledgeable guy and a really good man to boot, which, unfortunately, is rare in this industry.

I'm signed up for one of his 11.5" uppers myself, and would be extremely interested in a 6.5mm Grendel with a 16" or 18" barrel when/if he decides to do something like that.

I'll see if I can get Arnold over here so he can give some info on them.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Templar said:
I've said it before, but I've been really impressed with these uppers.

Arnold is a hell of a knowledgeable guy and a really good man to boot, which, unfortunately, is rare in this industry.

I'm signed up for one of his 11.5" uppers myself, and would be extremely interested in a 6.5mm Grendel with a 16" or 18" barrel when/if he decides to do something like that.

I'll see if I can get Arnold over here so he can give some info on them.
I'm first on the Grendel if he does them :wink:
 

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i really dont need to look at stuff like that. makes me want it sooo bad

damn sexy upper btw
 

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Templar,

Thanks for starting the thread.
The upper looks like a winner.

I'll have to check into an 11.5 inch.
 

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Great post! Wonderful pictures, excellent detail it appears that you have winner. It's nice to see more choices in the piston upper category. Thanks for endeavouring to bring this product to market.
 

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Templar said:
I've said it before, but I've been really impressed with these uppers.

Arnold is a hell of a knowledgeable guy and a really good man to boot, which, unfortunately, is rare in this industry.

I'm signed up for one of his 11.5" uppers myself, and would be extremely interested in a 6.5mm Grendel with a 16" or 18" barrel when/if he decides to do something like that.

I'll see if I can get Arnold over here so he can give some info on them.
Do you know what diameter bbl will be used with the 11.5" model? Will these be available with M16(full-auto) carriers?
 

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MKM said:
Templar said:
I've said it before, but I've been really impressed with these uppers.

Arnold is a hell of a knowledgeable guy and a really good man to boot, which, unfortunately, is rare in this industry.

I'm signed up for one of his 11.5" uppers myself, and would be extremely interested in a 6.5mm Grendel with a 16" or 18" barrel when/if he decides to do something like that.

I'll see if I can get Arnold over here so he can give some info on them.
Do you know what diameter bbl will be used with the 11.5" model? Will these be available with M16(full-auto) carriers?
Hi Tim Hi Mark, you know I am into the AK stuff as well, I will have to post some of my builds some time!

The 11.5 will not be a heavy contour, but will not be undercut like the M4 either, it will be about .720 under the handguard. All ADC uppers will have M16 carriers, I have been working very hard to source the best of parts I can, Iam serious about doing this right!.............Thanks......Arnold
 

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So you wont be doing any retrofitting to customers existing uppers then? :oops: :smile:
 

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ptsi

(post to show intrest)

this looks freking sweet
 

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Just_Parker said:
So you wont be doing any retrofitting to customers existing uppers then? :oops: :smile:
Sorry about the delayed response.
No I am not offering a retrofit, these will be complete uppers ready to pop on your lower.there are a couple reasons why.

Its a pain to pin on another gas block on a barrel that has had a front sight on it due to there being holes in the barrel, sometimes the block is not held in place like is should be.

Another reason is I don't know whose barrel/bolt/parts ect. it may be that I am working with, I wont to offer the best piston system I can and the only way is to make a complete upper with parts I know are the best I can get!.........................Thanks.......................Arnold
 

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Ballpark cost on on of these?

Rookie question....

Why do civilians like the M4 style barrels vs a quality Mid weight or Heavy barrel. Is it just because it looks more authentic?
 

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Robpiat said:
Ballpark cost on on of these?

Rookie question....

Why do civilians like the M4 style barrels vs a quality Mid weight or Heavy barrel. Is it just because it looks more authentic?
My question to you would be what purpose does a heavy barrel serve on a tactical carbine?
 

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Hey Arnold please put me on the list for an 11.5" upper. :dance:
 

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Robpiat said:
Ballpark cost on on of these?

Rookie question....

Why do civilians like the M4 style barrels vs a quality Mid weight or Heavy barrel. Is it just because it looks more authentic?
unless your doing mag dumps trying to break contact why deal with the extra weight? :mrgreen:
 
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