[dan5505]

So, Ive been doing some reading on Wikipedia about the breakup of Yugoslavia. From what I understand, there were four main "groups": Croatians, Serbs, Bosnians (Bosniaks?), and Slovenians. Correct me if I'm wrong.

On my M70 kit, I have a very basic carving. Is there any way of telling which side of the conflict the rifle was used on? Did all groups typically carve symbols into their rifles? Did all groups have Yugoslavian manufactured weapons?

Ive seen other M70 kits with the text on the rear sight block. Do the majority of M70s have the text? Why do some have text and others don't?

 

[Loyal11475]

There are some Sticky's on this in the Yugo Section, but reach out to member "Jonpo" he seems to know alot of the History stuff behind M64 and M70 Varients...

 

[jonpo]

I'm here now :grin:. I do not know that much about the politics of Yugoslavia and do not want to present any misinformation about that as it is sensitive with some members. Rather, i will talk about the rifle as i have gathered a lot of info on that both first hand and through reading descriptions and looking at other people's pictures.

I have seen carvings from Serbians (cross with 4 "C's"); Croatian (checkered crest); and Bosnian (Fleur-de-lis and Arabic writing). Some have Cyrillic and others are in the Latin alphabet. Your carving does not look like anything too unique. Just a design likely scratched by a bored soldier.

There were a bunch of different AK's used in the conflict. I know for sure the Bosnians used Yugo, Egyptian, DDR, Romanian, Hungarian, Russian, and Chinese AK's. I have seen pictures of Thomspons used as well, so it was not just limited to Euro weapons.

As for your question on the RSB, Loyal asked a similar question a little while back and here is what I write to him:

Here's what I have gathered:

The blank RSB's came first
Then the bad EP'd came next (usually on the ones with blank trunnions and serial on the right of the receiver). The are pretty uncommon, though. They usually appear on the slabside m70's. I have on on a "B" prefix stamped m72
The stamped RSB's came later. I have one on my slabside m70 "A" prefix (seems to be out of order, I know), and on my 1982 m70's. I think this stopped in 1984-1985, but I do not have any of those years to check.
The blank RSB's appeared again in 1986 and continue to this day.

All the components interchange between stamped and milled

 

[dan5505]

Thanks Jonpo, that's exactly what I was looking for.

 

[scooby]

So, Ive been doing some reading on Wikipedia about the breakup of Yugoslavia. From what I understand, there were four main "groups": Croatians, Serbs, Bosnians (Bosniaks?), and Slovenians. Correct me if I'm wrong.

On my M70 kit, I have a very basic carving. Is there any way of telling which side of the conflict the rifle was used on? Did all groups typically carve symbols into their rifles? Did all groups have Yugoslavian manufactured weapons?

Ive seen other M70 kits with the text on the rear sight block. Do the majority of M70s have the text? Why do some have text and others don't?

You forgot Montenegros, Macedonians, Albanians in Kosovo, Hungarians in Vojvodina,

No.
rifles were carved mostly by ********(we have them to in former Yugoslavia) - Bubba needs to improve rifle .Rifle carried by city person no carving no stickers 90% of time , rifle carried by *******, Bubba art work in 99% cases.

 

[dan5505]

Thanks for the info Scooby. What part of former Yugoslavia are you from?

 

[Loyal11475]

Damn "********" are everywhere...... Good info 'Scooby'. The Yugo Civil War is so interesting, froma historical perspective.

 

[scooby]

Bosnia and Herzegovina.

Bosnian ******* is country music addict has urge to take perfectly good surplus rifle like M48 and cut stock in half in order to get sporterized looking hunting rifle. Sounds familiar doesn't? :grin:

 

[30russianshort]

Its kind of a mine field, several years I did befriended a Serb who was my age on another forum. He was eager to help me with questions about the rifles from his land and such, and we enjoyed just a good basic friendship covering many issues. I never took his side or any other side about the war, I am interested in history and didn't consider it my fight but when his friends found out he was talking to an American they pretty much disowned him and we never spoke again. Recently, I took a woman's name that was carved in Latin on a stock and just for fun ran a search on facebook. I found several girls with the name from Bosnia and the area, I was shocked that on their friend lists there were people from not only Muslim nations but Serbia and much of the Christian areas of Europe. While I admit I really enjoy learning about the conflict of the 90s of that region, I am very sad at the divides between them and hope things improve.

As for the ******* Bubba factor-LOL, I sure wish all the Bubba's over there would have taken some woodcarving classes because I got carvings ranging from works of art to something a 3rd grade idiot might have done with a hatchet. One thing about the carvings, it has cost me a lot of extra money because I had to collect carvings from all sides just to be fair and all.......

 

[scooby]

It wouldn't be Bubba art work if it was done at any higher level than third grader with hatchet .

Generally speaking Bosnians especially older generations like me have a lot of friends other religions from pre war days and there is no city in Bosnia that wasn't made from people from different religious , national backgrounds .Before the war we didn't care about somebody religion or anything else , most of us doesn't care even today. We are just more PC this days and more aware of surroundings in which we can find ourself like wrong bar or political party rally . So30 russian don't be shocked .

 

[30russianshort]

It wouldn't be Bubba art work if it was done at any higher level than third grader with hatchet .

Generally speaking Bosnians especially older generations like me have a lot of friends other religions from pre war days and there is no city in Bosnia that wasn't made from people from different religious , national backgrounds .Before the war we didn't care about somebody religion or anything else , most of us doesn't care even today. We are just more PC this days and more aware of surroundings in which we can find ourself like wrong bar or political party rally . So30 russian don't be shocked .

I am really glad you feel that way, the Serb and I were pretty good friends and it wouldn't have made me any difference if he was Muslim or Christian. I was just shocked at how his friends treated him because of me and frankly, felt a little guilty about it.

 

[M-70B1]

It may be obvious to say so at this point, but any carvings involving Cyrillic would be Serb. Croats and Bosnian Muslims do not and would not use the Cyrillic alphabet.

The Serb "firesteel" emblem is called the "ocila." The Croat emblem is called the "sahovica." The fleur de lis emblem, I believe was associated with medieval Bosnian kings. I might be incorrect on this matter. Muslims would also likely employ crescent devices. Very interesting to read about the use of Arabic script — this could be an atavistic display of the Turkish writing style of the pre-1878 Ottoman occupation of BiH/pre-Kemal Ataturk period.

A few years ago, I surfed into a website that had streaming television broadcast video from Bihac, BiH. The channel that was displayed had music playing of a very distinct Arab style, very Middle Eastern scenes, themes, etc. It surprised me a bit. It was as though I were watching TV Yemen or something similar. Granted, this was just one TV show. I can imagine many people getting an incorrect idea about the USA if they'd only seen just one of any number of American TV shows... :wink: :grin:

Needless to say, this is also in no way meant as a criticism, rather a comment on distinctly Middle Eastern themes and self-identification which seem to have been mainstreamed into at least some of Bosnian society and culture. Perhaps it was always present to that degree and couldn't be as openly expressed during the Federal Yugoslav period. Scooby no doubt could provide a better explanation.

I would imagine too that one might find carvings reflecting affiliation in political parties: HOZ, SDS, SRS, SDA, etc.

30RS: Your experience seems to be somewhat unusual. I know many Serbs in the diaspora and in the Balkans and have never encountered such an experience in which someone is socially ostracized for speaking to an American.

 

[JoeMomma]

This is a question for scooby, and I"m sorry for the hijack here...

Anywhoo, I have a camo field jacket that I "think" is from Yugoslavia, but am not really sure. It came with the patch you see in the pic already attached. The cool thing is, it actually fits me, which is rare because almost everything surplus is usually way to short.
Pics:


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Details of the rear of the jacket. The zippers give you access to a tunnel pocket that would hold a ponch or wet wheather suit very nicly


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[scooby]

JoeMomma,

Your's jacket is strange combo . Jacket it self is Yugo / Serbian Tigre stripe camo but the patches are Croatian first one says POLICE and shield shaped is Croatian Police force shield it says Policija - Police than RH (Republika Hrvatska) what means :Republic of Croatia and than MUP which means :Ministry of interior ( Ministry of Police ) .

Before the war out of all police force only Special Units of Police ( SWAT type ) used to wear green tiger stripe uniforms so probably your jacket came from Yugo Army to police force of Socialist Republic Croatia and after proclamation of the Independence of Rep. Croatia patch was added , I am hoping that this helped .

Uniform in question is military issue so it is not regular everyday uniform worn by patrol officer.

 

[JoeMomma]

Thanks scooby. I wonder if its real, or if someone just slapped a few patches on it?

 

[scooby]

Joe in the beginning of the war in Croatia and than in Bosnia lack of uniforms and equipment was rampart so if somebody had quality uniform made by Yugo military person would worn that uniform same goes for hunting camo uniforms .

In '95 on the end of war in Bosnia you could run in a solder dressed in German flectarin pants, US woodland shirt , tiger stripe Serbian jacket , Croatian vest and Bosnian booths mix and match was common .

 

[OODA_Loop]

That's a current issue patch.