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I should know the answer, and I apologize for not digging enough to find it, but are most or all of the 69 Izzy kits at Rguns re-furb'd mixmasters? I know the numbers match, but most or all of them have been arsenal refurbished and I'm wondering if there's any probability that the parts set will be from the same rifle, or at least the same factory and compatible by era. I have an original '71 Izzy barrel assembly that deserves an excellent kit and trying to figure out if the Rguns parts set is worthy. Haven't had any luck finding a "real deal" '71 Izzy parts set to go with it.
 

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Many of these are mostly correct by factory and year. Some of them have a few renumbered removable parts, but in many cases these are the original parts that came on the rifle to begin with, just refinished and restamped (hen-scratches don't hold up too well to refinishing). A great deal of the metal has been refinished and some wood replacements are also evident. Those are my two biggest gripes, incorrect wood and grayish finishes, which BTW are both correctable and by no means show stoppers. To be fair, some of the nicer kits have also looked nearly new with original looking finish and parts.

In anutshell, it's the luck of the draw on that stuff. Overall, and only from what I have personally seen, they are much more intact as to original factory than your average non-barrel kits sold elsewhere, but not necessarily in better condition. I see no reason why you won't get the original key numbered parts when you order a '69 from them. You already have an intact barrel assembly, which means many of the routinely mixed up parts are taken care of in regards to factory, so you are way ahead of the ballgame. I'd say if you have a good set of Izhmash era correct wood on hand, and that barrel, then you should be GTG towards completing a near perfect kit. Any of the non-numbered stuff like trigger guards and what not are easy to replace if they turn out to be wrong.

They all do seem to be marked as rearsenaled, but people don't always fully understand what "rearsenaled" actually means. For any number of logical reasons, they think it must mean a rifle was completely redone, refinished and/or rebuilt. This can be true but it's generally not the case at all. Depots actually receive weapons from the military during turn-ins that can be in any and all conditions, from a completely used-up wreck to a near new rifle that was hardly if ever used. Then they sort them by what they need, some super nice examples go directly to the end of the line after a function check and overall inspection (with maybe a slight touch-up here and there to the paint or the shellac), while some shot-out POS's get parted out to salvage what's still good enough to reuse. Then there's a thousand and one levels in between those two extremes. In general, they don't do any more to them than necessary, for practical and financial reasons.

But guess what? They all get the same certification stampings, i.e. what we like to call "refurb stamps". This is really a misnomer, since the stampings actually are done to signify the rifle went through a detailed inspection process and was certified to meet military service standards before it was placed into deep storage until such a time as they might either be reissued, transferred elsewhere or sold abroad.

I guess what I'm getting at is that every one of these rifle kits is like a surprise birthday gift, you don't know what you have until you open the box.

I'd really like to see more of the kits people are getting n now. I'm sure the quality goes up and down as new crates are opened. I'm sure if you ordered and received one that was just horrible, you could send it back for a replacement. I have not seen one like that, myself.
 

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AZAK, does your '71 Izhevsk barrel assembly have the trunnion?

The RGuns kits are pretty nice, but although it seems that some do have later replacement parts mixed in, it seems that both the Izhevsk and Tula kits from them all seem to be dated 1969. If you have a 1971 Izhevsk trunnion with your barrel, it might be cheaper and easier to just get one of the parts kits without the trunnions that show up once in a while and use that to build up a rifle and save a couple hundred dollars at the same time.
 

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.... what tantal said.

That having been said, it might be worth a try to get a kit or two and see what you come up with. You might loose a couple hundred by selling them at a discount on here, but you would have a freaking sweet kit.


If I found a matching izzy kit with good wood and an original barrel, I would pay a bunch more than the price of the izzy kit.....
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
I was more willing to roll the dice on the Soviet kits that were selling for under $300 a few years ago.


AZAK, does your '71 Izhevsk barrel assembly have the trunnion?
Yes, it includes a trunnion. By my reckoning, the cast RSB on my '71 barrel would not be correct for a '69 kit, so pulling off the '71 FT and combining that with a good 69 kit would still require stripping the barrel, which I'd rather remained intact. I have several of the Soviet "Tula" AKM kits that came in a few years ago so it might make more sense to to try to find one that's chock full of '71-compatible Izzy parts and renumber the rest of the kit to match the FT.
 

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Ill have to post pictures of my kit I got second hand. Id love to know what doesn't belong

I know its a 69 kit with a wood PG and seems no others have that so I'm sure a lot is off
 

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I have a front trunnion-less 1970 Izhevsk kit listed for sale on the Marketplace forum for $400 + shipping. If you can't find a 1971 parts kit, it might be a little better and closer to a '71 than using a '69 kit?
 

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Some late '69's had cast front and rear sight bases, so that's not really a problem. It's not what you'd call the poster child example for all of 1969, but they don't usually wait until Jan 1st to change things and this is one of those cases. That is, as long as your FSB is first pattern cast and not second pattern cast, which it should be since I think (without going back and checking) that '71 is too early for that anyway.

This is what "I" would do, but keep in mind I'm not really stuck on numbers matching as I'm more of a cosmetics guy. I'd build an all correct rifle around that '71 trunnion and intact barrel using spares, taking extra effort to make sure each part was original finish, and correct for a '71 izzy. That means forgetting matching numbers. I've done many rifles this way, using orphaned PLO barrel assy's.

If your barrel needs paint anyway, according to it's current state and your projected goal in the end, then you won't have to worry so much about original finish on the other parts. The benefits of "Plan A" are that your barrel is already headspaced and properly sized/fitted to that trunnion, and it's all '71 stuff. I can even supply (or help you find) all the parts you need to build a stellar '71 Izzy, it just won't be numbers matching, or tight wad cheap, but so what? Would that work?

Once in a while a real nice trunnion-less kit also comes along. I have not looked at it, but Marcus might have one available as we speak. The benefit of "Plan B" is that it's initially cheaper, that is until a guy gets serious (or educated) and figures out it needs a new set of wood or some other parts replaced to make it all right. Not all of them are like this, but most are. I havent really seen a nice Izzy looking kit in quite a while, not for sale, and the ones I have seen looked like they had '68-era parts of them mixed with a few mid-late 70's replacements, all restampled. Some of these ktis were super nice with great original finish parts in them, but if you are not super careful you could end up buying somebody's bunch of refinished junk, IMO. Do any vendors sell them anymore?

Now, it you want to start with a better matching, more complete kit that in many cases still has all of it's original numbered metal, which is important to a great number of people, then I'd go "Plan C" and try an RGuns kit. Some of them are truly outstanding, for the same reasons I've stated above. Plus, RGUns has historically been very good about taking returns and/or exchanging stuff.

When you buy the RGuns kit, remember at least $200 of the entry fee is trunnion, so you are only really spending like $400 for all numbers matching, or most all, anyway. In other words, you can recoup $200 of your investment by selling your old trunnion. You (or I) can't possibly piece together even a really correct, nice non-numbers matching trunnion-less kit for $400. Just a nice correct furniture set is gonna run, what? $200, at the least these days.

Lots of ways to look at it, but any route you go is gonna mean spending a few bucks. You don't really want to go "cheaper and easier" and end up wasting an original barrel "that deserves an excellent kit", do you? You just need to make a decision on what's important to you, and how much you wanna spend.
 

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Ill have to post pictures of my kit I got second hand. Id love to know what doesn't belong
I know its a 69 kit with a wood PG and seems no others have that so I'm sure a lot is off
I'm sure we would all love to see it, man. Please do post them up.

I have a front trunnion-less 1970 Izhevsk kit listed for sale on the Marketplace forum for $400 + shipping. If you can't find a 1971 parts kit, it might be a little better and closer to a '71 than using a '69 kit?
Sounds like a good option.
 

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I'm really tempted to buy one of these and build it as an underfolder. I know how damn hard Russian AKM underfolders can be to track down, but I think I could live with one that is a close copy to the Soviet (the hungarian ones? I forget).
 

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Yes, the Hungarian version is the closest IMHO, if you combine the Hungo strut assembly with Polish pivot drum parts.
 

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Yes, the Hungarian version is the closest IMHO, if you combine the Hungo strut assembly with Polish pivot drum parts.
Awesome, thanks for the tip Doug. Rearsenaled or not, it is pretty awesome that complete Soviet AKM kits are readily available matching numbers, minus a few small parts RGUNS probably figured didn't much matter.
 

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Roger that!

Hey, if you order one, be sure to show it to us.
 

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Roger that!

Hey, if you order one, be sure to show it to us.
Yikes.. I'm slacking on posting my current builds, I'll get on that tomorrow. Lord knows I enjoy seeing what everybody else is working on :beer:
 

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Awesome, thanks for the tip Doug. Rearsenaled or not, it is pretty awesome that complete Soviet AKM kits are readily available matching numbers, minus a few small parts RGUNS probably figured didn't much matter.
How true! It costs a ton more in time and $$ trying to piecemeal a matching kit together. Ask me how I know! The RGuns kits are pricey but a great option.

@AZAK, the trunnion and major parts match in my '69 Izzy kit but they are mostly repainted. The wood is in good condition. Just found out that even the cleaning rod is an Izzy part.

Robert
 

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One more Tula sent from RGUNS

Hi Guys, I have stalked for a while but finally broke down and bought the 69 Izzy kit from RGUNS and thought I would join in. I ordered it on Monday and it arrived today and to my surprise it was a Tula kit! It is the same as the others, a couple of parts are not 100% accurate but it is pretty close. Let me know what you think... good purchase or not?
 

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