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JoeMomma said:
That 203 arrangement does not look like a good idea to me.
Yup, that's one of the main reasons the SASR and Commandos went for the M4 until the Austyer gets a decent makeover. Even in A2 configuration, it didn't really handle accessories and grenade launchers well.
 
Cerberus said:
Call me goofy, but I like the looks of the L85A1. Don't know how well they work but I think they look cool.

Once HK got done with it (and the UK MoD spent more money on the refit than if they had bought Canadian C8/M4's for every trooper), it works. Keep it running wet and it works.

Daniel Defense won the contract to provide the rail system for the A2 upgrade.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgA_3ulwN_w
 
A few more military bullpup rifles:

China's QBZ95:

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The Iranian Khaybar 2002:

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Israel's Tavor:

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Singapore's SAR21:

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And of course the old bugle, the French FAMAS:

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DaewooXK8:

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Croatian VHS:

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South Africa's Vektor CR21:

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JoeMomma said:

He did an excellent firsthand review there, very interesting to hear his thoughts.

You really have to wonder what the MoD was thinking when they adopted the SA80, it is almost like they never even bothered to field test it, or maybe did not listen to any of the comments made by those field testing it. It seems the more political decisions that are involved in a weapon, the less useable and reliable it ends up.
 
Dawg180 said:
JoeMomma said:

He did an excellent firsthand review there, very interesting to hear his thoughts.

You really have to wonder what the MoD was thinking when they adopted the SA80, it is almost like they never even bothered to field test it, or maybe did not listen to any of the comments made by those field testing it. It seems the more political decisions that are involved in a weapon, the less useable and reliable it ends up.

Same reason NATO didn't ultimately adopt a universal battle rifle, because every country sees having their own domestically designed and produced infantry rifle as a mark of being a sovereign power. That nationalism was contained a lot better during the Cold War, but once the Soviet threat disappeared, more and more countries went their own way when they went with 5.56mm rifles. NATO STANAG is now just a pipe dream. Germany adopted their G36, which doesn't use STANAG magazines (the Spanish bought them too after giving up on their home grown CETME Modelo E's). Britain went with their L85/SA-80, France their G1 and G2 FAMAS, Italy their AR70/90's, Belgium has the FNC and F2000's.

Same can be said for China......adopting a domestically produced independently designed rifle marks them as a world power.
 
Templar said:
Dawg180 said:
JoeMomma said:

He did an excellent firsthand review there, very interesting to hear his thoughts.

You really have to wonder what the MoD was thinking when they adopted the SA80, it is almost like they never even bothered to field test it, or maybe did not listen to any of the comments made by those field testing it. It seems the more political decisions that are involved in a weapon, the less useable and reliable it ends up.

Same reason NATO didn't ultimately adopt a universal battle rifle, because every country sees having their own domestically designed and produced infantry rifle as a mark of being a sovereign power. That nationalism was contained a lot better during the Cold War, but once the Soviet threat disappeared, more and more countries went their own way when they went with 5.56mm rifles. NATO STANAG is now just a pipe dream. Germany adopted their G36, which doesn't use STANAG magazines (the Spanish bought them too after giving up on their home grown CETME Modelo E's). Britain went with their L85/SA-80, France their G1 and G2 FAMAS, Italy their AR70/90's, Belgium has the FNC and F2000's.

Same can be said for China......adopting a domestically produced independently designed rifle marks them as a world power.

You may have misunderstood what I was trying to say - I completely understand why they decided to go homegrown, what boggles the mind is how the design did not really seem to incorporate, well, any thought as to the reality of how a rifle needs to function in a combat environment. Looking at it all you can think is they designed it, said "good enough" and started issuing them to troops.

Although if you meant they were blinded by national pride on the fact that they just really didn't know what they were doing or just assumed it would work fine, then that makes some sense. The urgency to rush a homegrown design into the hands of troops to move forward from "the last generation" of rifles and appear current makes a lot of sense as the driving force of adopting it in a form that really wasn't ready for adoption- politics is a bitch!
 
Dawg180 said:
Although if you meant they were blinded by national pride on the fact that they just really didn't know what they were doing or just assumed it would work fine, then that makes some sense. The urgency to rush a homegrown design into the hands of troops to move forward from "the last generation" of rifles and appear current makes a lot of sense as the driving force of adopting it in a form that really wasn't ready for adoption- politics is a bitch!

That's what I was aiming at. The Brits spent more money with HK to unfuck the L85 system than it would have cost to rearm with Canadian M16's and M4's, like the SAS use.
 
The Brits were hot for going with a Bullpup design ever since the 1950s for some reason. Although its only a guess on my part, it could be that since they were one of the first countries to come up with the design back then, they decided to use the original R&D to save some money while adopting their own system.
 
Another prototype of the forthcoming EF88 Austeyr - note the fluted barrel:

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Not sure if this means the rumours we are going back to black rifles is true, though.
 
Interesting, it looks like the quick detach the barrel you need to pull the horziontal forearm off (you can see the QD button jsut at the lower front edge of the receiver.

I like the rail solution on the underside, allows for an M203, horizontal grip, vertical grip, and any kind if inline laser or light to be mounted very easily.
 
Doc, what's your opinion on the flash suppression of the issue flash suppressor on the AUSTEYR?

Having used the MSAR in low light training, it frankly sucked, and sucked badly. Great Pumpkin sized balls of flash when using Federal XM193, Serbian Prvi Partizan M193 and some USGI surplus M193 from 1978.

A standard A2 flash suppressor was much, much better.
 
Templar said:
Doc, what's your opinion on the flash suppression of the issue flash suppressor on the AUSTEYR?

Having used the MSAR in low light training, it frankly sucked, and sucked badly. Great Pumpkin sized balls of flash when using Federal XM193, Serbian Prvi Partizan M193 and some USGI surplus M193 from 1978.

A standard A2 flash suppressor was much, much better.
Interesting question.

I don't recall it being particularly good or bad. I'll ask a mate who is ex-Commando if they noticed any significant difference between the M4s and F88s. I did notice that Austria has gone for a new muzzle device that looks more like a birdcage style, but Australia is sticking with the tulip design same as Microtech copied.
 
Interesting pic from post-war East Timor of ADF peacekeeper showing a couple Portuguese cops how to shoot the F88:

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Can any of you Trijicon fans tell me which model that is?
 
Cerberus said:
Doc, it doesn't look like a Trijicon, looks like an Aimpoint.
Hahahah, right you are! I was totally thrown by the odd profile at the front ... until I just realized she still has the lens cap on!
 
Is that a 1911 on the ground in front of the guy with the F88?

I want an FS2000, but at 2k+, I won't be able to afford one till I win the powerball.

Scott
 
mcnee229 said:
Is that a 1911 on the ground in front of the guy with the F88?
I can't tell, but it is certainly possible. The digger has his Hi-Power holstered and the Portuguese cop already has a holstered sidearm (another HP, maybe?). However, the newly created East Timor Defense Force (FDTL) chose the 1911A1 as their standard military sidearm.
 
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