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MarColMar and HMG Cetme L a Detailed Comparison

11K views 72 replies 23 participants last post by  HKshooter 
#1 ·
Let me warn you right off the line....this is going to be a long photo essay. And bear with me in this first post because a fair amount of commentary is needed before we get to the gun porn. This write-up is really intended to be a detailed look at the recently released Cetme L by MarColMAr Firearms (MCM). In truth, this rifle is more of a reproduction than a semi-auto rebuild of the Spanish Cetme L from a parts kit. I say that because much of the rifle is newly manufactured including, but not limited to, the receiver, barrel, furniture, trigger pack, magazine and a few other bits (we'll get to the full list of US made parts in a bit). Now, that's not a put down of this offering in any way. In fact, according to the owner of MarColMar, Dave Bane, this new rifle is actually superior to the original because of various upgrades including modern polymer furniture, a hammer forged barrel, better quality springs, and a host of other small changes intended to make the design more robust and reliable. Given MarColMar's track record, I tend to take Mr. Bane's word for it. I'll find out though once I get it to the range for testing and I will update this essay at that time.

Ideally, I would have an original rifle to compare this one to but, unless one of you guys has one lying around I can get my grubby paws on, we'll have to settle for one of the Hill & Mac Gunworks (HMG) specimens released back in late 2016. Unfortunately, only 100 of those were made by HMG, although for a while they did also offer a "build from your kit" service and a "builder's kit" if you wanted to do it yourself. So, while they only officially produced 100, there is a fair, albeit unknown, number more than that floating around. These rifles were essentially a kit gun built from very good condition imported parts sets using only the minimum number of required US parts. As such, they looked fairly used right out of the box with scratched up furniture and worn finish on many of the parts. For many, myself included, that was OK though because you knew you were getting something as close as possible to the original form. Besides, a little patina added to the looks if you ask me. The best part of all is that, despite the slightly used appearance, the HMG rifle is very accurate (I get more accuracy with mine than I do my HK93) and generally very reliable. Mine is over 99% reliable so long as I use GI magazines with strong springs. However, old worn magazine springs is another matter causing all kinds of weird misfeeds or even no feeds when the magazine is near empty. But Brownell's will fix you right up with new springs cheap and your AMG (it's painted green so it's an Army Man Gun) will run like a top again; at least mine does.


Now, simply putting a parts kit back together to make a legal functioning rifle was not good enough for MarColMar. They have built a reputation over the years for crafting what could essentially pass for a new firearm out of a decades old retired and torch cut pile of surplus parts. They only select the best parts kits its to begin with. Then they carefully modify the design to make it an ATF compliant semi-auto while preserving the look and feel of the original. This includes in-depth testing and ongoing development until they are satisfied that the end product will look, feel and function at least as well as the original was intended to. While sorting through the kits and developing the prototypes, any components which do not meet their aesthetic or functional standards are reproduced using the best possible materials so that they are as good or better than original factory parts. Only once they have everything finalized and sourced do they move on to production. MCM feels it's far better to delay a release date in order to work all the bugs out of design and logistics than it is to release a flawed product on time. Production itself is done using the most modern methods (including a welding robot on the Cetme L) and materials. The end result is a firearm that looks and functions as good or better than the originals did decades ago. According to Dave Bane, that's always been their standard way of doing things and that's the standard they've held their new Cetme L to as well.


So, did MarColMar succeed? Well....I don't fully know.....yet; but I will once I get some rounds through it. I will say though, it LOOKS very, very nice; not perfect mind you, but it's pretty darn close. So far, I have no regrets about how I spent my money. There are a few things to nit-pick and believe me, I will. But that's my self-appointed job, to show every little detail, both good and bad, so that you can make an informed decision about whether or not you want to spend your hard earned money on one. I will not be discussing price. You can easily look this rifle up in any search engine and find both MarColMar's website and any vendors selling them. As stated, my intention is to show you this rifle in detail so that you can make up your own mind about whether or not you wish to purchase one. Also, as stated, the HMG rifle is no longer in production or available from HMG. I include it here for comparison purposes only so that you can see the obvious difference between a rifle put together out of a parts set and one remanufactured to be as new.

This pre-firing write-up will take some time and multiple posts to complete so keep checking back to see new material. I'll let you know when I'm done and I'll update with range reports once I get my wussy butt to the range.....I hate the cold and there's no revolution currently going on so I can be picky about weather. Let's get started shall we?
 
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#58 ·
Great write up, thanks!

Looks like Hill & Mac Gunworks (HMG) is again offering their version of this rifle, this time for $999.99. If the photos are accurate, their gun appears to have the brass deflector eyebrow this time around. Notice the caliber, .223 Wylde.

https://www.hmgunworks.com/product/hmg-cetme-l-2/
 
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#60 ·
Great write up, thanks!

Looks like Hill & Mac Gunworks (HMG) is again offering their version of this rifle, this time for $999.99. If the photos are accurate, their gun appears to have the brass deflector eyebrow this time around. Notice the caliber, .223 Wylde.

https://www.hmgunworks.com/product/hmg-cetme-l-2/



I was reading a post on another forum where a guy bought one of these and has had nothing but trouble.

https://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5399513#post5399513

Hopefully for people who are buying the HMG's, that's an anomoly but it's something to consider. My advice would be to buy either one of the first 100 HMG's or the MarColMar
 
#65 · (Edited)
I'd like to add a short addendum to this. While researching the 5.56 CETME, I often come across information about the original magazines for these rifles referring to them as being designed by the Spanish specifically for the CETME but that's not correct. What they actually are is a carbon copy of an early design FNC magazine. Let me illustrate. NOTE....If you're bored easily or really don't care about magazine minutia, now might be a good time to make your escape. You have been warned.



In the pictures that follow, a CETME Magazine is in the middle, an early FNC is on the right and a later FNC/STANAG 5.56 magazine is on the left. For identification purposes, I've marked the later one with a "-" using a white china marker.


Right side:

The feed lip contour is a little different on the later FN. We'll get to that in a bit. All are steel.


Front:

That's not an illusion you're seeing. The later one is taller and is the exact same height as a standard STANAG magazine.


Left side:



Rear:



Top:

Notice that the newer magazine has a plastic follower designed to actuate the bolt holt open on a SCAR 16. Whether this magazine is an FNC that was upgraded or it was for a SCAR from the outset, I cannot say. What I can say is that both FN's are exactly as they were when they left Belgian service.


Bottom:



Closeup of the top rear:

Notice that the newer follower is designed to actuate the bolt stop on a SCAR 16. It will also work just fine in an M16/M4/AR-15 . The CETME and early FNC will work in those rifles as well but your bolt won't lock back automatically. The FNC never had a bolt hold open feature.
Also of note is that the bolt carrier clearance notch is the exact same width on all three magazines. A STANAG magazine has a more narrow notch. For that reason alone, I suspect that the magazine on the left is an FNC that was updated for use in a SCAR 16.


In this picture, I have added a Colt STANAG magazine on the extreme left for comparison:



Here's a detail shot of the top of the earlier FNC magazine:

The CETME is identical.


And here is the same area on the newer design:

The distance between the feed lips is the same on both magazines but the overall shape and geometry is different. I assume this schtuff was changed for reliability reasons. That's a guess but I think it's a pretty safe one.


A comparison between the Colt (top) and the later FNC (bottom):

In every way that matters, they are identical.


And here is the Colt compared to the early FNC (which is identical to the CETME:

There are so many differences, I'm not even going to attempt to point them all out because I'll probably get it wrong anyways. Cut me a break Francis....I'm not an engineer you know! But if you study them closely, you'll see them. You're probably smarter than me anyways!


Alrighty...I'm done. Be honest;that was mind-numbingly dull wasn't it? Now you know more than you probably ever cared to know about FNC and CETME L magazines. YaY!!!
 
#68 ·
I’m simply asking if you did. As with all the roller guns, the bolt gap has to within certain spec. My rifle is at .0025, which seems low. Now, German guns are set for .004-.020. As I have been told that Spanish were not a meticulousness as Germans so such spec doesn’t exist. Now I like the gun a lot and it functions fine.
 
#69 ·
There has been recent discussions concerning this very topic that have shown, in a nutshell, if you have any bolt gap at all the rifle is in spec and will function properly. The Spanish never published a gap spec for the 5.56 guns and the gap functions differently than that of their German relatives.
 
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