CZ99 Yugoslavian 9mm Pistol – Back from the brink

[Haris122]

Here’s my new-to-me “ugly gun special” cz-99. I picked it up Friday and only had a little time to shoot it, but it did a lot better than the EZ-9 has been doing with the ammo choices at hand. Shot 50 rounds of Speer Lawman 124 gr., 100 rounds of the notorious Winchester NATO 124 gr. (1 round was a complete dud), and maybe 14 rounds of the regular Federal 115 gr., and I had 3 light primer strikes of which one actually turned out to be the dud. So really it was 2 light hits that worked the 2nd time around. I didn’t get the chance to clean the pistol before shooting it so I’m assuming after having cleaned out the firing pin channel and firing pin, I probably won’t have further issues, not that it was real thick in there so it might have been some harder primers on the Winchester. The mag release and decocker/slide release were still a bit tough to operate (I’m assuming it was never operated by a left handed shooter before) but I think they should be fine after some more breaking in.

[MPiKM-72]

I'm very glad this one is working out for you.

I sometimes think that the factory put much less care and attention to detail into the models made for commercial civilian sale. Just my own theory.

The ones with Made in Yugoslavia on the slide were made with serious use in mind,

[JeepFan]

In my mind some ugly guns look good in their own way, like yours. I would say after some detail cleaning and possibly fresh internals you'd have a solid piece.

[MPiKM-72]

Maybe if you swap some parts between your two pistols you can isolate the issue with the EZ-9.

[Haris122]

Maybe if you swap some parts between your two pistols you can isolate the issue with the EZ-9.

.

I was thinking of doing just that. I haven’t quite checked out if the slides are interchangeable but I figured I start there. I was a little surprised, the CZ-99 did feel a bit different holding it, I would say less bulky/more comfortable than the EZ-9, even though when looking at the grip they look just about the same thickness. The trigger also was a touch different.

In the back of my mind I got this stupid superstition that as soon as I interchange something the bad mojo would transmit over from the EZ-9 to the CZ-99, but I know that’s just dumb. I really do want to know what’s wrong with it and if it’s fixable. I jokingly told my gf maybe the EZ-9 didn’t appreciate being handled by a Bosnian since the breakup of Yugoslavia, and it being labelled Made in Serbia, so it just kept acting stupid. I do think you’re onto something with more care given to the quality of the older “yugo” ones though.

[Arik]

I'm very glad this one is working out for you.

I sometimes think that the factory put much less care and attention to detail into the models made for commercial civilian sale. Just my own theory.

The ones with Made in Yugoslavia on the slide were made with serious use in mind,

I don't think it mattered. I think the factory was building guns and this batch went here and that next batch went there.

I just don't think that these guns are all that great to begin with. A number of years back on another forum there was a discussion about these and a member who was overseas and had direct experience with them in Iraq said there was a lot of issues. Had pictures and a detailed write-up. Wish I could find it but essentially a lot of frame cracking, parts breakage. No mention was made about what condition they were in or how long they've been issued....at least no mention that I can recall. Could have been brand new or well used hand me downs

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[MPiKM-72]

I recall that CZ99 article on M4 Carbine dot net. The pistols were in Iraq. I still have a pic of the pistols on a rack from that article - somewhere. Can't help but wonder what maintenance or cleaning the pistols got. I also recall some mention that those soldiers/police or contractors issued the CZ99 pistols in Iraq wanted "cooler" Glocks instead. "shrug".

There was also a flip side to that coin where a contractor posted pics of the CZ99 and AMD-65 he was issued on this very forum. I can't recall his ID here but he seemed to really like the CZ99 he was issued.

I take reports like that with a grain or two of salt. In the 1990's it was similar stuff I read - pre-internet for me - that kept me from the AR15 rifles. I bought my first AR15 - a preban Bushmaster - in 1998. Initially that brand new rifle was not reliable. Turned out the "rebuilt" preban mags I used were at fault. Once I obtained some good mags for that AR15 I no longer agreed with what I had been reading in the past. It proved to be extremely reliable - and I do shoot in mud and rain.

There is a saying I really like - "Attitudes are contagious. Is mine worth catching?"

I say that because I think - just my opinion - that the someone who wrote that CZ99 info on M4 might have had an attitude or bias against the pistol - that they wanted something different to be issued.

I read all that I could find on the CZ99 before I bought that CZ99 in my first post. I knew going in it would be a project. To the writer of that article I might reply "So why do my two CZ99 pistols work?"

I also want to clarify for the record - Arik - that I do NOT think you have an attitude for posting that. I value your opinion.


My thoughts on the military production quality vs. commercial production quality - at Zastava in particular - partly come from the more recently imported OPAP and NPAP semi-auto rifles and pistols. A small number seemed to have heat treat issues - bolt carriers wearing prematurely and I recall a sheetmetal receiver cracking. At one point I believe it was Apex that sold a batch "look kits we found inna warehouse" that were cut down newer import OPAP and NPAPs - I believe those were cut down due to problems they had. I think post-war Zastava quality might be down a bit from what it was pre-war. I don't recall reading about older barrelled Zastava kits having the premature wear or cracking issues other than issues from usage in a war environment. My two original barrel Zastava war time kits look good to go.

So that is why I think some EZ-9 pistols had production or warranty issues. I also seem to recall EAA - who loves importing obscure pistols - not getting the EZ-9 out of their inventory quickly enough. The don't carry them anymore and they got rid of all their spare parts (so I was told). When the CZ99 forum was still up I read posts where EAA just couldn't fix some of the EZ-9 pistols.

Just my opinion.

[Arik]

I think the PAP rifles are a different issue altogether. I believe those were built to a price point set by Century. "What can you guys build us for X amount?" As opposed to just asking the factory to make them a batch.

Agreed about the condition. Those could have already been well used to the point where they were at the end of their service life.

Some guns are definitely hard to find reviews for. Most people don't do much shooting with any particular firearm.

I stayed away from the AR as well due to the typical internet rumors. Wasn't until I started researching and finding articles on serious use and not just ...."I shot a 100 rounds and it went bang!" that I started to separate real reviews from just some shooting that happened.

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[MPiKM-72]

I remeber reading a review of this pistol back in the late 80's and it got pretty good press.
Unfortunately when the article was written, the Cz 99 was banned from import.
I bet it would have had a big following.

[MPiKM-72]

Palestinian chicks _ I think - training with CZ99 pistols. A little M92 action, too.

[Arik]

Palestinian chicks _ I think - training with CZ99 pistols. A little M92 action, too.

Can't help but think Geko45 when seeing the chick with the armor suitcase

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[Haris122]

Kind of got preoccupied with rifle deer season and just in general more shooting with my M70 that I hunt with, but I did want to give a quick update on my "ugly gun" special CZ-99. Have fired it several more times since that last report, and for the most part I've been pretty happy with it. It's certainly much more reliable than my EZ-9 (I still haven't interchanged parts with it to figure out what the issue is with that one but I'll get to it eventually).

Reason I wanted to give a quick update, is cause I did have some hiccups, namely light primer strikes. I remember mentioning having a failure to fire out of some ammo in the past that I figured was just bad ammo, but not long ago I tried out some Sellier and Bellot NATO ammo that has sealant over the primer too, and with that ammo for some reason I kept having light primer strikes out of the CZ-99 to the point that I had to pull the trigger 2 or 3 times in most cases of firing that ammo. I don't know if I'm having light primer strikes in general, but the other ammo brands seemed to fire like they should. I tried out that particular ammo in a striker fired Ruger pistol and it went off first time every time in that one, just like all the other ammo. The first time I took it out it might have been because it hadn't been completely cleaned, but these past 2 times, I know the firing pin was free to move as it should. I took it apart and cleaned it again, but there wasn't much to clean. I'm going to have to see if there's some way that I didn't put the pin in right, but if I did, it seems like there's very little of the pin protruding in the back to make contact with the hammer in general. I still like the gun a lot, I'm just going to have to look into that issue some more.

[43m1garand]

Thanks for sharing info on the CZ99. I have always liked Zastava guns. I have heard of the CZ99 a while back and seeing them for sale. I don't think they are ugly. Looks like a copy of a Sig. I think the PHP MV 17 is very ugly. I remember reading their quality is lacking. I was doing some reading about the MV recently and I did not know the Springfield XD came from the MV through several redesigns. I knew the XD was made by HS Produkt in Croatia.

[Haris122]

I feel the need to vent a bit and maybe get some advice. So a week back, I contact the seller of my ugly gun special CZ-99, wondering if he'd be willing to work with me on replacing my Ugly gun special with another one because by now, a bit over 2 months in (I know I should've realized this problem much earlier, but preparations for deer season and the like kept me preoccupied for most of November and early December at running the gun through it's paces the way I should've), it's becoming painfully obvious that this gun has some issues. I make it obvious that I understand since I fired it some, and accidentally wore off the finish from the slide (trying to fix the light primer strikes by soaking the slide and associated parts in a bowl of WD-40 rust remover), that I'm willing to put a little more money up, to make up the difference. The issues I've been having, are not anywhere as bad as the issues I had with my EZ-9, at least not yet, but still kind of annoying, considering this is now the 2nd gun of this type, to not work properly for me.

With NATO style 124 grain brass ammunition, this CZ-99 is having light primer strikes, and with steel cased Winchester 115 grain ammo, it's having lots of problems extracting. The light primer strikes with NATO stuff, varies from 1-3 rounds out of every 50 with Winchester NATO and MEN, to as much as 40-50% or so of the time with the green sealant Sellier and Bellot rounds. The extraction problems with steel cased Winchester 115 grain, are about every 2nd or 3rd round. Anyways, to my surprise, the guy doesn't just blow me off saying tough luck it's too late. He gets back to me, we agree to have me send him the gun back for him to look it over, after I told him what the issues are. I'm thinking great, the guy seems like he's actually willing to hear me out and see for himself, despite, it being 2 months since he sold me the gun. The gun gets back to him yesterday, and he lets me know that night, that he shot 1 full magazine of Aguila 124 grain out of it, without problems. In the back of my mind, I'm starting to have my doubts that this guy is serious, because first off, I never told him Aguila was what I was having problems with, and 2nd off, with 15 rounds, you're not going to be able to really tell much, unless the gun is total shit with that ammo. So again, I tell him, yeah the stuff I've been having problems with is primarily such and such, etc. Today, I get another e-mail from him, this time he shot a magazine of mixed german milspec Geco 124 grain, IMI, and Aguila and once again it fired perfectly. I call the guy and, we politely go back and forth, and when I ask him if he tried the steel cased Winchester, he gives me the stereotypical "steel cased ammo is shit, and only for throwaway guns" line, and says he doesn't buy that stuff. I figure great, dude is trying to dance around the issue, because I have a cheap Ruger that has not once yet jammed with the stuff. I then try to get him to shoot some of the Winchester, MEN, or Sellier and Bellot NATO rounds through it, and the dude just seems to not be willing to do any more testing with it. We go back and forth him saying I bought an ugly gun special, and I mention but I didn't buy a partially functioning gun special. Anyhow, I just bring up the idea again, of just replacing that CZ-99 and giving him some extra money, to get another one that actually works. He tells me he'll let me know of something by Wednesday so that's where we're at now. I'm pretty sure it's going to be yet another BS excuse but I guess we'll see what idea he comes up with.

I guess, moral of the story, if you buy guns from gunbroker, find the time, to really test the gun you get out thoroughly, with several hundred rounds on several trips, and try some of the shittiest brands of ammo right away, before you end up in a situation 2 months later, where you're arguing with the seller that you were sold a lemon.

[MPiKM-72]

We go back and forth him saying I bought an ugly gun special, and I mention but I didn't buy a partially functioning gun special. Anyhow, I just bring up the idea again, of just replacing that CZ-99 and giving him some extra money, to get another one that actually works. He tells me he'll let me know of something by Wednesday so that's where we're at now. I'm pretty sure it's going to be yet another BS excuse but I guess we'll see what idea he comes up with.

I guess, moral of the story, if you buy guns from gunbroker, find the time, to really test the gun you get out thoroughly, with several hundred rounds on several trips, and try some of the shittiest brands of ammo right away, before you end up in a situation 2 months later, where you're arguing with the seller that you were sold a lemon.

What was the eventual outcome of this?