5.45 tabuk pictures?
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Thread: 5.45 tabuk pictures?

  1. #1
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    5.45 tabuk pictures?

    I thought there was a picture in the grim reaper book but I was thinking of the 5.56 model that looks like an akm..

    Does anyone have a picture of the 5.45 prototype? Is it pretty much the same as the 5.56 model or is it based yugo parts like the rest of the tabuk line?

    I have two al quds and a sniper planned to go with my spiker and carbine builds. 5.45 would make a nice addition to the clone lineup..

    Last edited by dfm5609; 10-07-2019 at 04:42 PM.
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    Never heard of or saw a Tabuk in 5.45 or 5.56.

    Not to say one can't create one and have the engraving and markings added etc.

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    Spiker doubles as a monopod?
    MPiKM-72 and PeaceSells560 like this.
    needs moar AK

    or beer


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    Quote Originally Posted by AKBLUE View Post
    Never heard of or saw a Tabuk in 5.45 or 5.56.

    Not to say one can't create one and have the engraving and markings added etc.
    Grim reaper has a copy of a factory brochure showing a 5.56 AKM style rifle but not nearly detailed enough to make out markings. Two Rivers makes a reference to the 5.45 version, apparently based on the Zastava M80. That wouldn't be the worst thing to build, just guessing that the markings are consistent with the rest of the tabuk rifles but it would be nice to see a picture to confirm.

    It is odd to me that they would base a 5.45 rifle on the m80 but then base a 5.56 rifle on akm style parts which is the other reason I want to see pictures, to confirm that it is actually based on the m80.

    Also, I can't find any decent pictures of the m80 gas block which is a problem since I would need to machine one.

    Quote Originally Posted by scottyb View Post
    Spiker doubles as a monopod?
    Probably a more practical use than as an actual bayonet in 1990! It's a fun rifle though, very glad I built a clone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfm5609 View Post
    Grim reaper has a copy of a factory brochure showing a 5.56 AKM style rifle but not nearly detailed enough to make out markings. Two Rivers makes a reference to the 5.45 version, apparently based on the Zastava M80. That wouldn't be the worst thing to build, just guessing that the markings are consistent with the rest of the tabuk rifles but it would be nice to see a picture to confirm.

    It is odd to me that they would base a 5.45 rifle on the m80 but then base a 5.56 rifle on akm style parts which is the other reason I want to see pictures, to confirm that it is actually based on the m80.

    Also, I can't find any decent pictures of the m80 gas block which is a problem since I would need to machine one.



    Probably a more practical use than as an actual bayonet in 1990! It's a fun rifle though, very glad I built a clone.
    Yes, I have seen the catalog listing the 5.56.
    But based on no specimens known or captured it appears to be a " catalog: firearm vs a production model.
    The 5.45 seems to be the same.
    I built several TBuk clones but never thought the 5.45 or 5.56 were actual production firearms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AKBLUE View Post
    Yes, I have seen the catalog listing the 5.56.
    But based on no specimens known or captured it appears to be a " catalog: firearm vs a production model.
    The 5.45 seems to be the same.
    I built several TBuk clones but never thought the 5.45 or 5.56 were actual production firearms.
    I believe there have been posts here from members who were in Iraq that found domestically produced 5.45 rifles but I would assume they were prototypes or trials rifles that got out in the wild..

    https://www.theakforum.net/forums/52...nflicts-3.html

    Searching again, Two Rivers posted a clear picture of the 5.56 model. Looks like a mix of m70ab1 and ak parts. It would make sense that a 5.45 model would be very similar, but it would be nice to see some kind of confirmation.

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    Does anyone know how to get in touch with rayman1? I found some of his old posts saying he has pictures of a 5.45 rifle he found in Iraq but I can't find where he posted them and his pm inbox is full.

    I've started planning a clone of the 5.56 catalog/prototype rifle in the link above, I'll post a thread on that when I make some progress

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    There was at least one physical rifle chambered in 5.45x39mm. I had it for a short time, so I got to examine it pretty well. There were photos of it in a sticky but looks like the photos might be gone. Will see if I can get them here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rayman1 View Post
    There was at least one physical rifle chambered in 5.45x39mm. I had it for a short time, so I got to examine it pretty well. There were photos of it in a sticky but looks like the photos might be gone. Will see if I can get them here.
    Thank you! You have my email if that's easier for you, I can host them somewhere and post them here.

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    I grabbed some measurements directly from the pictures, did some math to double check what I was seeing and the chamber is definitely smaller than 7.62x39. Barrel looks to be about 18" or so but I need to take some more measurements and get something exact. The barrel looks a little thinner in the picture and from what Rayman1 told me it is thin enough that it was obvious in person that it wasn't a 7.62 tabuk.

    Looks like a pretty straightforward build, I'm emailing Matt at recreator blanks to see about getting an m72 blank with a 5.45 magwell. Worst case I'll get a 7.62 blank and make it work. I have a spare virgin m85 trunnion and bullet guide that I might use, or I might modify the kit trunnion and use a galil bolt. GM has 5.45 blanks and I just got my lathe set up. I have a few extra npap front sights but all of my gas blocks are spoken for so I'll probably try to modify an m70 gas block.


























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    The bolt looks to be a large stem type.
    That would be unusual in 5.45.
    Of course the Yugoslavians never adopted that.
    Hard to tell on the chamber size but I did not try to do a comparison.

    The M85 is not such a good choice without mods.
    The left side ear or pillar is short front to rear.
    Unlike the non hinged M70/90/95 trunnions.
    It creates a gap in the receiver cover fitment.

    A M70 trunnion with a modified Galil 5.56 bolt and bullet guide would work with the M70/M72 carrier. IMHO.

    Both are large stem, short lug.

    Too bad a mag wasn't there for a pic.
    That would verify a lot.

    I suppose it will be a one off franken build., as virtually no one would know what it really represents., except a few AK aficionado types. But that is satisfaction in itself.
    Last edited by AKBLUE; 04-22-2020 at 07:46 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AKBLUE View Post
    The bolt looks to be a large stem type.
    That would be unusual in 5.45.
    Of course the Yugoslavians never adopted that.
    Hard to tell on the chamber size but I did not try to do a comparison.

    The M85 is not such a good choice without mods.
    The left side ear or pillar is short front to rear.
    Unlike the non hinged M70/90/95 trunnions.
    It creates a gap in the receiver cover fitment.

    A M70 trunnion with a modified Galil 5.56 bolt and bullet guide would work with the M70/M72 carrier. IMHO.

    Both are large stem, short lug.

    Too bad a mag wasn't there for a pic.
    That would verify a lot.

    I suppose it will be a one off franken build., as virtually no one would know what it really represents., except a few AK aficionado types. But that is satisfaction in itself.
    The large stem bolt is unusual in 5.45 but not uncommon in 5.56 so I would think it would work fine. I'm assuming something like this would be a toolroom prototype or a custom one off for someone important made at the factory, I wouldn't think they would go through the effort to machine a small stem carrier and bolt from their forgings when they could just put a bushing in the face of a 7.62 bolt, make a new extractor and call it a day.

    Measuring the picture I got the chamber diameter as 46% of the barrel diameter, just the 7.62 case head diameter would be 52% of the barrel diameter while the 5.45 case head is 46% of the barrel diameter. It definitely looks off comparing it side by side to a barreled m70 receiver.

    I'm not sure if I want to weld up the m85 trunnion and profile it to look like an m70 trunnion. I know others have done it. I put it in a receiver and a 5.45 mag fits with some excessive side to side play I could fix. I'll need to compare it to an m70 trunnion what modification would be easier. If I machine the m70 trunnion to take 5.45 mags I'll probably try to rack down an AIMS bullet guide.

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    This is them information I got from Rayman1

    Quote Originally Posted by rayman1
    If memory serves, the right side just had the selector markings and that was all.

    The magazine was with it but I don't think it was for the rifle. I was asked to stop by a Counterintelligence Support Team's office where they had the rifle. One of the agents there said that a local national was upset that a rifle that had been given to him didn't work. When one of the agents examined it, he found that it didn't chamber a 7.62x39mm round. When they tried to put a 5.56mm round in it, it was just slightly too big. Since the issue perplexed them, I was asked to look at it and determined the chambering was for the 5.45x39mm round. I don't know where the rifle came from as it was one that was given to the local national (I believe he was a community leader) by another US Army unit for community self-defense. If it was captured somewhere, it's very likely that the soldiers had no clue to assume it wasn't anything other than a standard 7.62x39mm chambered rifle. I was told by a former Iraqi military officer that one of Saddam's sons was a big proponent of the 5.45x39mm round and had a couple of Russian AK74's. But he wanted the round chambered in a domestically made rifle such as the Tabuk. The officer said that he had three or four Tabuks chambered in the 5.45x39mm round and used them for hunting. This may have been one of those rifles as I never encountered any other 5.45x39mm chambered weapons domestically produced by Iraq although AK74's were found there (Bulgarian and Russian). But those were usually brought in by foreign fighters.

    I believe there was likely a 5.45x39mm magazine that should've been with it which may have been internally modified for the 5.45x39mm round but used a 7.62x39mm magazine body - which is why standard AK magazines fit the receiver.

    The thinner barrel is definitely a dead give-away to the knowledgeable AK enthusiast but not to a standard soldier or most local nationals. I wasn't able to get any definitive results from examinations to see if the barrel was actually Iraqi-made or possibly Russian, Yugoslavian (special order made), Bulgarian, or any other countries. The gas block and front sight base are Iraqi-made, so it was be hard to know about the barrel since they could make the trunnion, front sight base, and gas block to any size they wanted.

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    It was definitely an odd one. Some at the time thought it was for a 5.56mm (M16/M4) round but it wouldn't chamber it. Just a bit too big.

 

 

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