Norwegian Capture K98's
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    Norwegian Capture K98's

    I heard that some of them were converted to .30/06 for use by their air force. My friend showed me a picture of a mound of K98's in the Resistance Museum in Norway. They are arranged so the muzzles of some protrude in the pile, so when you're looking down the barrels of them, it forms a swastika. How many K98's do you think the Norwegians got?

    One of my friend's pictures. They are welded together.


    One picture of said stack.


    Picture of German POW's cleaning and stacking 44,000 of them.
    Last edited by Norinco QBZ-95; 08-02-2018 at 08:58 AM.

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    Re: Norwegian Capture K98's

    Not sure now many they got, but I know my State (MN) has a few because they were gifts to the MN Guard when they do a troop exchange every year, there's a few at Camp Ripley. MN and the Norwegian army do this every year. And they did convert many to 30.60. They also did some in 7.62 Nato. Me and a buddy bought some of the NOS barrels that were Norwegian and I used one to replace a crap 8mm barrel on a beater k98. Not sure if the Norwegians just refurbed captured 98's or if the srarted building all parts including receivers.

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    Re: Norwegian Capture K98's

    Quote Originally Posted by Norinco QBZ-95
    How many K98's do you think the Norwegians got?

    Not as many as the Russian did. Depending on sources, there was 300K-400K German troops in Norway when they capitulated on May 8th 1945. I would speculate that maybe 150K K98's would be a rough guess as not all of these troops would have been line infantry as it was mainly a administrative occupation force.
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    Re: Norwegian Capture K98's

    That's interesting. They just let them bring them back? Are the Norwegian barrels good? My friend's great uncle was an armorer in the Norwegian Army and then a civilian gunsmith. If I get the chance, I'll have to ask him some stuff.

    It would be cool if they exported some of their K98's here.

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    Re: Norwegian Capture K98's

    No no, the k98's were gifts to the unit's not to the individual soldiers. Sorry that I did not explain that better. I can not see the Norwegian government releasing any of their arms these days. Too much politics in that. I think we got those barrel from Coles distributing about 4-5 years ago. And yes, they were great. Some were military k98 stepped, others were not, so one could machine them and keep them heavy to make a custom sniper. Which my friend did, or is going to do.

    I agree with Hoobro's Numbers on the amount of k98's in country during the German occupation, but they receiver many more after the war to help build up their military. Remember, they used M1's post war also. The 98's pictured in this thread look like they were never refurbed, and many look fire damaged as you all probably noticed.

    And please, ask that Norwegian gun smith what he knows. How many they had? What parts did they produce? etc etc. Then let us know.

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    Re: Norwegian Capture K98's

    In searching for the second picture, someone on a forum claimed to have grabbed a few sight hoods off the pile during the 70's when he visited. He said you were allowed to walk right up to it.

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    Re: Norwegian Capture K98's

    I believe it. A buddy who is a member here (hope he pops in) said when he was there they had Sten's in working order that were just wired to maniquins (SP). You could grab them if you liked. Different culture over there.

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    Re: Norwegian Capture K98's

    Quote Originally Posted by INFANTRY
    I believe it. A buddy who is a member here (hope he pops in) said when he was there they had Sten's in working order that were just wired to maniquins (SP). You could grab them if you liked. Different culture over there.
    From what my friend told me, Scandinavia has a gun culture deeply entrenched in their society. However, it's heavily hunting based. Kids are taught to respect guns as tools for hunting. Still, his uncle liked my friend's DSA FAL (rich ass 19 year old kid).

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    Re: Norwegian Capture K98's

    I had a chance at one of those at a Gunshow a few back for a shade over $400 OTD, and like a dumbass, I passed.

    They do pop up from time to time, but usually the price is around $600 plus or minus.
    All the examples I have seen are pre, or early war examples. I would LOVE to get my hands on one some day.
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    Re: Norwegian Capture K98's

    I have two of them, both in excellent condition. My 7,62x63/.30-06 appeared to never have been fired after it got the new barrel sometime in the 50s, and my 7,92x57 one has an excellent original barrel. One is made in 1938, and the other in 1939 and are made from the steel quality the Germans liked to refer to as 'Krupp Steel'. Both guns have Norwegian stamps on the left-hand side of the receiver.

    They can be had for 200-250 USD over here.

    In Norwegian service, the standard German K98k with original barrel in 7,92x57 was called 'M98k' and was issued to the Norwegian Navy. 'M98k' is short for 'Modell 1898, Karabin', which an be translated as 'Model of 1898, Carbine'. The K98ks which were converted to 7,62x63/.30-06, were called 'M98k F1'. 'F1' is short for 'Forandring #1', which can be translated to English as 'Alternation #1', refering to the barrel/caliber change. These guns were issued to the Army Land Forces, Air Force, Coastal Artillery and Home Guards. They were used by the Home Guards Youth division up until about fifteen years ago. That was pretty cool really, at age 16, one could sign up for volunteer service in the Home Guards, receive military training, and were given a WW2 Mauser to keep at home. Nowadays the Home Guards Youth division uses AG-3 [HK G3A3/'A5'] assault rifles which have a blocked selector, so that the gun can fire in semi only, and I don't think that they can actually store the guns at home anymore.

    For those who have one, or are thinking about a purchase, here is what the receiver markings mean;

    HÆR = Army Land Forces
    FLY [short for 'Flyvåpen'] = Air Force
    KNM [short for 'Kongelige Norske Marine'] = Royal Norwegian Navy
    K.ART [short for 'Kystartilleri'] = Coastal Artillery
    HV [short for 'Heimevern'] = Home Guards
    POLITI = Police [G33/40 only]


    I'm currently in the process of obtaining a quite rare 1940 G33/40 'Gebirgsjägerkarabiner' in the original caliber. This rifle is quite interesting, since it does not have any Norwegian stamps on it, i.e. it has not been used by the Norwegian Armed Forces or Police after the war. [People could buy these rifles dirt cheap in the years after the war.] The Norwegian police actually also used the G33/40 up until [if remember correctly] sometime in the in the late 60/early 70s. These guns are marked with a stamping with the Norwegian coat of arms [lion in a shield] and the word 'Politi'. They have the original German barrels in 7,92x57, and are often referred to as 'Police Mauser', or even 'Elephant Mauser' because of the strong recoil and the huge muzzle flash.

    For the last few months of my army service, I carried a NM-149 F1 DMR rifle. These rifles were custom made for the army by a Norwegian gunsmithing business, and were heavily converted G33/40s with a slightly redsigned safety catch, a Schmidt & Bender 6x42 scope, long heavy barrel in 7,62x51 NATO, custom laminate stock, and had a front sight and a flash hider not unlike that of the AG-3 assault rifle. It was a good and very accurate rifle, but rather heavy to drag around in the field with. Funny thing about the NM-149s were that the rifles were serialized after the serial number on the scope.



    -Dan-

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    Re: Norwegian Capture K98's

    Nice info. It's amazing that you can get a K98 for so cheap there. Here in the US, we can barely get a Russian capture for that price if even. Then again, you guys have your own K98's lying around. Ours have to be shipped over from Russia and Yugoslavia.

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    Re: Norwegian Capture K98's

    I visited Norway to train in 2000; Earned my Norwegian Parachute badge.

    As someone mentioned, the Norwegians allow firearms, to include full auto. From what I understand, Norwegians can actually bring stuff back from Afghanistan.


    I seem to recall hearing that the K98s were recently sold off, but that TransArms in Germany bid out American firms. Not sure how true that it..

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    Re: Norwegian Capture K98's

    Quote Originally Posted by INFANTRY
    Not sure if the Norwegians just refurbed captured 98's or if the srarted building all parts including receivers.
    No, no major parts were made domestically for our Armed Forces' Mausers, with the exception of laminate stocks. If a rifle became so badly damaged during its Norwegian army service that the stock was considerd to be beyond repair, it would simply receive either a good used German take-off stock or a new Norwegian-made laminate stock. The Norwegian replacement stocks were identical to the German ones with the exception of the markings. German butt plates etc were still being used with the new stocks. Some civilian enterprises made custom aftermarket parts for the civilian Mauser market though, such as safety catches, mag well covers, scope mounts, hunting-type stock sets and trigger systems and so on.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hootbro
    Quote Originally Posted by Norinco QBZ-95
    How many K98's do you think the Norwegians got?
    Not as many as the Russian did. Depending on sources, there was 300K-400K German troops in Norway when they capitulated on May 8th 1945. I would speculate that maybe 150K K98's would be a rough guess as not all of these troops would have been line infantry as it was mainly a administrative occupation force.
    I once read in a Norwegian weapons magazine that there were about 220.000 German Mauser rifles left in Norway when the war ended. All of these became the property of the Norwegian Goverment. Huge amounts of these rifles were dumped out at sea, together with vast quantities of other stuff from the many German coastal fortresses, even the coastal artillery cannons and such things as the Biber one-man submarines. After the Armed Forces had taken their share of the leftovers of the Mausers, the remaining stocks were sold off to the public. Considering that a great number of the said 220.000 Mausers were dumped out at sea, I think it is reasonable to assume, like Hootbro suggested, that something like 150.000 guns would be left for the Norwegian Armed Forces to pick from. The Norwegian Armed Forces picked only guns from the best production years, which means that the chances of finding Norwegian-stamped ex-German Mausers made in 1944 and 45 are pretty slim [probably the same thing with 1943 Mausers, too].

    In addition to German-manufactured weapons of all different makes, the German occupation forces also used great quantites of captured Norwegian Krag-Jørgensen rifles, Belgian, Czech and Yugo Mausers and even some French rifles, together with great numbers of Norwegian-made Madsen MGs and a number of Czech and Yugo MGs. A bizarre footnote here, is that after the German Wehrmacht carried out the huge October, 1941 massacre in Kragujevac, Serbia, where, among many others, a great portion of the workers of the Crvena Zastava weapons factory [today's Zastava Arms; manufacturer of the 'Yugo AK'] was executed, a great number of the plant workers were sent to Northern Norway to work as slave laborers. A document from the German Reichskommisar in Norway, Josef Terboven, ordered the camp commandants to make the Serbs live under [quote;] 'the worst possible living conditions', as part of an experiment in human endurance under critical circumstances. These death camps, where the Crvena Zastava weapons plant workers and Yugoslavian partisans were literally worked, beaten, shot, starved and tortured to death, were guarded by SS-Totenkopfverbände troops armed with weapons manufactured at the Crvena Zastava plant.

    As for pistols, the German occupation forces used both captured ex-Norwegian Army Nagant revolvers [of both Belgian and Swedish manufacture] and Colt M1914 [Norwegian-made licenced copy of the M1911, pre-A1 type], together with a whole variety of Polish Radoms, Belgium High-Powers etc and even captured American Colts along with the standard German models.

    One elderly gent I spoke to, told me about the time when he took part in cleaning out German depots and coastal fortresses in the autumn/winter of 1945. They went out with boats to a nearby 2000-feet deep fjord and dumped huge amounts of Mauser rifles overboard. Ten rifles bound together with a sling, and *splash*, into the deep they went. They did the same thing with enormous amounts of steel helmets, boxes of hand grenades and ammunition, artillery powder charges and shells, land mines, FLAK anti-aircraft guns and everything else you can imagine. Bayonets were dumped by the thousands, and 'impractical' model MGs, like Maxims and so on that had been used as stationary MGs on coastal fortresses, received the same treatment. [Some of these Maxims were weapons captured on the Eastern Front, and was chambered for 7,62x54R.]

    Another gent I once spoke to, told me how they bulldozed plenty of German fighter and bomber planes out on the runway of an airstrip a bit North of where I live. The planes, mostly JU-88, Me-109 and FW-190s, were then used as landfill in the end of the runway.

    A third gent I spoke with, told me how he took part in burning everything they could find inside the Norwegian Waffen-SS training camp outside Holmestrand, south-eastern Norway. They spent two days during the summer of 1945 hauling uniforms and camoflage equipment, boxes full of insignia etc, and tossed them on to huge bonfires.

    [My greatest hobby is what happened in my country during WW2; I have spent a great deal of time over the past almost twenty years travelling around the country and interviewing people about their WW2 experiences. AKs are only a good number two on my priority list ]


    Quote Originally Posted by Norinco QBZ-95
    Are the Norwegian barrels good?
    Excellent. Not saying that because I'm Norwegian, but out of experience. The steel quality in the Norwegian barrels together with the worksmanship of the Kongsberg workers, made the Norwegian barrels equal on all points to the brilliant Swedish Mauser barrels. [As a side note; just check out the machining qualities and steel quality of the Norwegian Krag-Jørgensen rifles. Nothing sounds smoother than a Norwegian Krag mechanism. ]


    Quote Originally Posted by INFANTRY
    I agree with Hoobro's Numbers on the amount of k98's in country during the German occupation, but they receiver many more after the war to help build up their military. Remember, they used M1's post war also.
    To my knowledge, we didn't receive any further Mauser 98s from abroad after the end of WW2. I would think that there were already enough Mausers in-country at the time. [I'm not 100% sure though, so I am by no means claiming that you are wrong. ] We did however, like you said, receive a substantional amount of US weaponry, like M1 Carbines, M1 Garands, Browning BARs, .50 BMGs and even some Thompsons and folding-stock M1 Carbines. The fixed-stock US Carbine was also used by the Norwegian Police, together with the above mentioned Mauser G33/40.


    Quote Originally Posted by Norinco QBZ-95
    Nice info. It's amazing that you can get a K98 for so cheap there. Here in the US, we can barely get a Russian capture for that price if even. Then again, you guys have your own K98's lying around. Ours have to be shipped over from Russia and Yugoslavia.
    Funny thing about that, is that over here, you have to pay almost twice the cost of a Mauser to get a good collectors-grade Mosin. And what may come as an even bigger surprise, is that used WASR-type Romanian semi AKs used to go for a lot over 1000 dollars. Even more strange, is that for about the same price, you could get a milled semi Valmet, and for the equivalent of 2000 US dollars, you can [if you're lucky to find one] get an original Zastava M76 with the mil-spec third pin receiver.


    Quote Originally Posted by Stottman
    I visited Norway to train in 2000; Earned my Norwegian Parachute badge.

    As someone mentioned, the Norwegians allow firearms, to include full auto. From what I understand, Norwegians can actually bring stuff back from Afghanistan.


    I seem to recall hearing that the K98s were recently sold off, but that TransArms in Germany bid out American firms. Not sure how true that it..
    Nice to hear that you have been to Norway, I hope you liked it here.

    I am one of the 'lucky few' with the full-auto collector's licence that you mentioned. This is a thing that is very hard to get. Clean record and documentation of purpose for collecting and all that. You have to be recommended by more than one long-time collector's licence holder, and you have to be on a waiting list for 24 months before you are eventually accepted and much more, too much to list. A DUI, for example, is enough to lose the licence, since it is considered 'irresponsible behaviour and lack of proper judgement made under the influence of alcohol'.

    You are probably right about some of our Mausers being sold to Germany. A German friend of mine told me that they can now buy both live and de-activated ex-Norwegian Mausers down there, for prices that are a lot higher than what they cost here in Norway. [As a side note, while de-activated WW2 bolt guns are still legal to sell in Norway, de-activated modern machine weapons, such as the AK and the M-16 etc, are not, and to my knowledge has never been, legal in Norway. They are legal to some extent in most of the EU countries including Germany and the UK, but Norway is not part of the EU. In addition, further imports and sales, even private sales from one citizen to another, of semi-automatic 'assault weapons' are also banned now, unless the receipient has the state-approved collector's licence. It's absolutely crazy; a private citizen without the collector's licence can't buy Romanian PSLs because they look 'evil', but he can still buy the much more accurate 'cozy-looking' 9,3x62 or .30-06 Valmet Hunter, which is basically an even more powerful AK/PSL, only with a hunting stock. Saigas aren't sold any longer except for types with really long barrels, due to the whole 'concealment' issue, and opening mag wells for high-cap mags is a serious offense. In any case, there has never really been a lot of semi-automatic 'assault rifles' on the Norwegian market in the first place. There are even fewer full-autos.]



    -Dan-

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    Re: Norwegian Capture K98's

    Funny thing about that, is that over here, you have to pay almost twice the cost of a Mauser to get a good collectors-grade Mosin.
    I've been told similar stories from people in Finland, Germany, Belgium and Italy. Apparently, the demand is rising, as well as the price. People are willing to pay quite a bit for them in Europe. Couple that with our current economic issues and it's not hard to see why U.S. importers are getting outbid on a lot of surplus firearms. I've also been told that a lot of the nicer Enfield rifles that used to be fairly easy to find, are now being exported to Europe, but especially England, as they are in huge demand. That's why the prices for them have jumped so much and the number of nice examples available here, is dwindling fast. People are making a lot more money off of them by shipping them overseas.
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    Re: Norwegian Capture K98's

    Interesting information MPIKMS-72 , thanks for sharing.
    Veritas vos liberabit


 

 
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