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Thread: Some sbr and trust help please

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by myst173 View Post
    Really though if you're looking at getting SBR/SBS then you're much better off buying a factory/sot built one than rolling your own if you think you'll ever sell it.
    All else being equal, I completely agree. I buy factory SBR's whenever I can versus making them myself. The downside to factory SBR's is that they transfer on Form 4's. The Form 4's are currently taking a little under a year on average. That means that the SBR would have to stay at your dealer's store until then. Plus, you'd have to do a NFA transfer versus a regular transfer which typically costs more. The e-filed Form 1's are currently taking about a month right now. Of course the stamp price is the same $200. Also, when you make one yourself, you have to get it engraved which costs some money. Most manufacturers charge the same for SBR's or just a bit more (versus the same gun with a 16" barrel). However, there are a few that attempt to rape you with their factory SBR prices. Arsenal comes to mind. They're typically want at least $500 more for their factory SBR's (which technically are not even factory SBR's because they're converted by them in the US). I chopped the barrel on all my Arsenal SBR's because the additional $$$ wasn't worth it to me, even considering the value when I sell.
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  2. #17
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    Question: with all the rumblings lately over AWB, would it be wise to create a trust for even non-NFA firearms? I realize this is all conjecture, but if a ban were passed but with a grandfather clause, my wife and kids would be on the trust. Just as a CYA protocol. Thoughts?

  3. #18
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    That's an interesting concept and might work depending on what exactly might be passed. Meanwhile, we need to put all of our efforts in to making sure that a ban doesn't get passed.
    angus_podgorney and JeepFan like this.
    Rights are inherent. They do not come from another's wallet.

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  5. #19
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    Okay - I stand (somewhat) corrected...

    IF you have a valid will, and IF it has been properly probated and IF your will designates an heir for any NFA items possessed by an individual. THEN upon your death those items may be surrendered to the executor of the will who will file an ATF form 5 (one for each NFA item). In that case the items will (probably) transfer tax-free to the heir.

    But...

    The executor will have to establish that the will is valid, that is has been properly probated and that the heir(s) are valid. The only way out of that is through the use of a trust, either estate or family - but it seems the idea is to avoid the use of a trust, right?


    AND, if you take a look at the Form 5 (5320.5) you will notice their is a requirement for passport photos, fingerprint cards, etc....


    So go ahead and do that - file for the tax stamps as an individual. Then, upon your death whatever attorney is handling the estate can charge your heirs a bunch of money to hold the items in escrow, file the Form 5(s) - along with a set of photos, fingerprint cards, etc. (for each Responsible Person). Then they can wait for however long it takes ATF to process the Form 5(s).


    OR, you can do it through a trust. When you die, the Beneficiaries can simply take possession of the items and leave. No attorney required, no problems with any contested will, no problems with any judge that has an issue with the way assets are distributed by the will and no problems with any adult cousins, nephews, aunts, uncles that decide they should have that $25K machine gun rather than your eighteen year-old grandkid.

    If you have multiple NFA items that will distribute to multiple beneficiaries, it will be necessary to file a Form 5 for EACH item along with a set of photos and finger print cards for EACH individual that will receive one of those items.

    But you are probably right - if you don't like your family, just buy a dozen NFA items and obtain the tax stamps as an individual. Upon your death, your two or three kids and four or five grandkids can fight over everything, pay some attorney a couple of grand to handle all the paperwork and wait for however long it takes ATF to sort everything else.

    Sounds like great advice to me....

    M.T. Vinson
    AKWORX, Inc.
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  6. #20
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    This


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    I didn't make the point that people should not have a will. It's always a good idea to have a will, but don't conflate having a will with having a trust. If one has a will and files forms as an individual, everything will be just fine. The executor doesn't have to take possession (but can) of NFA items. If a person doesn't have a will, then it works just like any other time a person doesn't have a will. The courts decide. Either way, whoever is heir to the NFA item gets to decide whether they want to keep it (Form 5 tax free transfer) or take the money (Form 4 transfer to whoever it gets sold to).
    JeepFan likes this.
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  8. #22
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    Just my thoughts on any pending/possible assault weapons ban...

    In my entire lifetime, that has only happened once (my first president was Dwight Eisenhower).

    The only time that has ever happened, the Democrats controlled all three branches of government. Even then, they did not get what they wanted, which was confiscation of assault-style, semi-auto firearms. The passage of that assault weapons ban ultimately cost them control of all three houses, so I seriously doubt they will rush right into a similar mistake in the near future (it's easy to run your mouth about passing such legislation when there is little prospect of actually getting it into law...).

    The 1992 AWB only affected things going forward from that new legislation. To this day, you will still see "pre-ban" items for sale all over the internet. Sales of items manufactured before the ban were brisk, basically never stopped. So even though you could not manufacture a new AR with a bayonet lug, you could buy one - you just paid a little more money for it. That law expired, things went back to normal.

    I would not be surprised if we see some kind of new gun legislation - I think universal background checks is a serious possibility. I seriously doubt we will see another AWB. The FBI admitted the 1992 ban did nothing to reduce crime, neither has any other gun control legislation.

    But even if they do pass some new law, (IMO) it is unlikely it will affect anything that exists today. Even the bump-stock ban was challenged in court - those that participated in the lawsuit were permitted to keep theirs.


    I just placed a large order for AR parts on sale from a wholesaler. If I really believed things might get banned, I probably would not have invested that money. So I have literally put my money where my mouth is.

    I would not hesitate to buy something new - right now is a pretty good time to do it. The prices are down, availability is high. If they do pass some new ban, I doubt it will affect anything that is already in the market.

    M.T. Vinson
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  9. #23
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    ATF regulations (27 C.F.R. 479.90, specifically 9.5.3.1) states:

    "Form 5 must be filed by an executor or administrator to register a firearm to a lawful heir and the form must be approved by ATF prior to distribution to the heir".

    So I don't know how one would manage that transfer without involving the executor or administrator of the estate. If one assumes that "Aunt Betty" is going to be the executor of the estate, she is going to have a problem. In all likelihood she will have to contact an attorney, an SOT or somebody else that understands the process to help her with the ATF paperwork.

    So you are back to hiring an attorney, turning the items over to an SOT or making certain whomever you plan to appoint as the executor of the estate is well versed in ATF regulations before you roll over and die.

    Good luck with that...

    M.T. Vinson

  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by akworx-inc View Post
    So I don't know how one would manage that transfer without involving the executor or administrator of the estate. If one assumes that "Aunt Betty" is going to be the executor of the estate, she is going to have a problem. In all likelihood she will have to contact an attorney, an SOT or somebody else that understands the process to help her with the ATF paperwork.
    If Aunt Betty is the executor and doesn't understand everything involved with transferring NFA firearms, it would definitely be prudent to have such a knowledgeable person designated in the will. I wouldn't designate an attorney as they'll likely just bleed the heirs of their money. Instead, a knowledgeable SOT would be ideal. Working out the charges for help ahead of time would be even more ideal. This is really not much different than making arrangements for what to do regarding a gun collection when the owner passes. If the owner designates in the will who will be responsible for disposing of the collection, the heirs are much more likely to get good money for what they inherit. On the other hand, if the owner doesn't let the heirs know how to dispose of the collection, it's unlikely that they'll end up getting good money for it.
    Rights are inherent. They do not come from another's wallet.

  11. #25
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    Now that's a great idea...

    Quote Originally Posted by Bret View Post
    If Aunt Betty is the executor and doesn't understand everything involved with transferring NFA firearms, it would definitely be prudent to have such a knowledgeable person designated in the will. I wouldn't designate an attorney as they'll likely just bleed the heirs of their money. Instead, a knowledgeable SOT would be ideal. Working out the charges for help ahead of time would be even more ideal. This is really not much different than making arrangements for what to do regarding a gun collection when the owner passes. If the owner designates in the will who will be responsible for disposing of the collection, the heirs are much more likely to get good money for what they inherit. On the other hand, if the owner doesn't let the heirs know how to dispose of the collection, it's unlikely that they'll end up getting good money for it.
    Now I would agree with that 100 percent...

    Just as in the case of doing a trust, proper estate planning will resolve a lot of issues.

    M.T. Vinson

 

 
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