KK-MPi-69 builds
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Thread: KK-MPi-69 builds

  1. #1
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    KK-MPi-69 builds

    15 plus years ago I purchased a KK-MPi-69 22lr training rifle kit from AWO

    Kit # 1, it was complete except for the receiver. I knew I was going to do a big build one day, so I held off riveting it together, glad I did. I needed the complete undamaged magazine guide for spec's. Several years back I purchased a demiled barrel w/ trunnion on e-bay, attached by wire was a damaged magazine guide, but salvagable now I had two (2) Magazine guides.
    The magazine guides are elusive, many were destroyed in the demilling process. I attempted to reproduce one, but It did not come out nice, so I kept Kit #1 together with electrical nuts and bolts, put the spare parts away

    the electric nuts and bolts are similar in diameter to long rivets need to finish the kit. I currently utilizing the nuts and bolts for this build session. in between Kit 1 & 2 one of the fellow members at weaponsguild e-mailed me regarding the 22lr barrel sell off numrich had, so I bought the 10- barrel package, there were several barrels that could be converted and modified to fit the trunnion, I also put those away for the future

    kit #2 started out as extra parts from AA-OK, desert fox and numrich, odd parts for sale on the numerous gun sites. Last winter, I got my e-mail from Apex - low and behold they had complete front ends, having the parts to immediately get her shooting, I fitted the parts and off to the range!! those suhl barrels are very accurate.

    hand made magazine blocks need to be made, so I orders some bar steel the same thickness as the original or I should same very close. I took one of the original magazine guides and used it for a template. I I do all my work with hand tools when possible. I made three out of bar steel cut to the same width the length. started out with a hack saw and power saw to finalize. then I drill pressed out the inside of the magazine guides then I drilled the rivet support hole and the bolt stop hole and then the ejector slot. the last thing is to weld or braze the small bullet guide

    rifle # 3
    now I have two complete rifles to work with, I wanted to wait to see if a third ( 3rd) rifle was possible. I had the internal parts, extra stocks, handguards, two MPi-69 trunnions. So I spent most of my limited free time turning down the barrel exterior to fit the trunnion and add the cover piece that surrounds the barrel, I fabricated two shields out of round tubing, sleeved the chamber end.
    that resolved the barrel issue. The modified barrels & receivers will be rust blued utilizing Mt Laurel

    Rifle # 4??????
    I have a trunnion , barrel and magazine guide, stock set, I have several posts requesting parts yes i can buy what I need, from the three source but i wanted to help out fellow members but cleaning out there un-used parts to finish my projects

    The receivers come from different vendors cope's polish blank, a turbothis blank, and a Bent U blank, my magazines come from that cleaview investment or CTD they had a sale on the mags many many moons ago $ 9 a magazine so I bought 20 and the bought ten mag pouches from clearview, they were dirty so i washed then in warm water and soap , washed by hand with scrub brush they were like $ 2 a pouch

    there is another reason I have not started riveting these kits. I am going to sell the first kit and maybe the second kit. i will start riveting kit #3 once I have test fired it. Im in the process of drilling out the FCG holes


    if you have any spare parts to contribute please feel free to drop me a PM we can talk, maybe get Rifle # 4 up and going

    Thanks
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  2. #2
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    ok I posted a few additional pictures

    I got a comment from a non builder regarding the "screw build" its not screw build. the screws are actually nuts and bolts. they hold the rifle together for fitting and testing, all the rivet holes on the MPi-69 are the same diameter and length ( close) there s no tapping of the holes, the screws fit inside snug. The final builds will have rivets and will be rust blued
    shame he was more concerned about attacking me that learning
    it has been my practice never to show finished builds or gallery pictures for the final projects
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  3. #3
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    Hi, nice work it's challenging enough to build one let alone four..

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  5. #4
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    wildcat thank you. its been a culmination of 15 plus years accumulating the parts from different and now non existing companies here and abroad

    below is a reply to several questions I received on another site revolving around the hand made mag guides

    yes both of the hand made mag guides have the bolt stop hole drilled and I have the factory parts. also I just purchased a turbothis MPI-69 receiver, it has the hole for the detent. I have never used it or installed in my original mag guide. . I will install it in the rifles I finalize. I have never built a full auto version, not planning on that

    my range has been closed for the past 3 weeks, so I can not test the guides out. I did find that while function testing in the shop, that the bolt kicks out the empty case without the ejector and feeds without the ramp build into the mag guide. I am curious

    also I have a 5th barrel set up, I will be starting in a few weeks, I will photograph that process for those with kits and no barrels

    I also found that there are variations of magazines. oh on that subject, I have found some mags are working some are not. I will also testing mags,.

    more to come
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  6. #5
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    well the range opened today, so off I went with rifle # 1 the original kit as a test bed and Rifle # 3, the kit with the re configured barrel and the homemade mag guide

    this range testing was two fold
    1) to see if the mag guide feed and ejected with the ramp and if the ejector was absolutely required
    2) weed out more bad mags with rifle #1

    so regarding the first order of business, the rifle did feed without the feeding ramp with a 1 in 10 rounds not feeding.
    the conclusion is yes you need a feeding ramp, so I will be brazing / forming the ramps to the mag guide plates. but it did work

    now ejection yes I got ejection of fired cases without the ejector installed, I would say 4 out of 10 ejected with out the ejector. so yes I will be making ejectors. someone sent me a PM a while back and asked if I could use a Sig 228 ejector, while they look similar I would say NO!!!
    I will probably use some scrap ak receiver pieces to form and heat treat the metal ejector photo's of that when I start that process

    second the testing the mags, I found another mag that did not feed right. check them out at a much later date

    next I will be turning down another barrel and add the chamber face area for rifle # 4

    more to come
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  7. #6
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    About 10 years back maybe further back, there was a thread on AKforums or files regarding this type of build. I jumped in, because I had already built one rifle. So I want to go into what interchanges with the standard Ak-47, I mis quoted myself back then

    The only common parts are the buttstock, pistol grip, triggerguard and selector stop, all of the other parts are made specifically for the MPi-69

    The rear trunnion looks the same, but it is not! the opening for the recoil unit is narrower on the Ak-47. On build one & two as shown, I had to take a dremil cut off wheel and gently remove the under portions, so the recoil spring unit would fit. When I take them apart again, I will add a photo for reference. You must take metal from under the trunnion top, not the bottom of the trunnion. As this will lower the recoil unit and it will not fit the top cover. I utilized a American made trunnion and I bought a EG ak-47 rear trunnion to keep rifle # 3 all east german
    The receiver does not have internal rails and the trunnion holes are in different locations, also the front & rear trunnions and the mag guide all utilize a long rivet, like the two for the rear trunnion. the mag guild rivet should have a flat top like most center support units because in fact, the mag guide is now the center support. I have a bent “U”. Copes Polish and turbothis 80% receivers. Guess Im gonna need another 80% blank. I already have the Weaponsmark templates for the selector markings

    Selector levers are similar, but not the same and also need to be (slightly modified more on this later) modified externally and on the interior but a standard ak selector can be utilized.
    Barrel- ok the second biggest problem after the mag guides was fabrication barrels that would work. All the demil trunnions had barrel stubs, once I remove the barrels after driving out the barrel pin I placed the stubs aside as it will come in handy

    The face of the barrel is different than any other 22lr barrel I have come across. The face ( as shown) projects out and encloses the bolt head. I assume this is a safety measure, This needs to be duplicated?? Ok I had to think this through and did so on and off for a few years. Then on a business flight, it popped into my head, turn the barrel down . then sleeve it with round steel tubing. Press the new sleeve and barrel into the trunnion. The inside of the sleeve at the bolt face needs to be opened. Dremel makes a grinding stone that fits perfectly inside, so I opened up the sleeve - bolt face area, so the bolt would finally close. I will end up brazing the sleeve to the modified barrel. Then I will pin the barrel. Utilizing the barrel stub will allow me to set headspace per say, I should say breechspace face. I also had to turn down the barrel for the handguard retainer and the front sight.
    Utilizing spare parts and slapping them together is not doing a AR-15 assembly job. Top covers are hard to keep on, so each must fit the respective rifle.

    I should note for rifle # 3 the barrel had a feeding ramp already milled at the barrel face, so I am utilizing this instead of creating a feeding ramp on the mag guide, lets see how it works at the range, to date it function testing utilized dummy rounds in the shop.
    Up-date -after I test fire Rifle # 3,
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    Last edited by sprat; 03-11-2020 at 05:57 PM.
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    Last week I had access to my homemade lathe, I turned down the barrel with the existing feeding ramp, I added a steel sleeve to copy the chamber end of the original rifle. I used the thinnest tube metal available. I used the old barrel stubs to copy the chamber end. The sleeve is driven on to the chamber end of the barrel, I turned down. I will eventually heat treat these chamber extensions, then brazed to the barrel, then blued, then placed in the trunnion and cut the trunnion pin hole

    I took the re-configured barrel/ trunnion #4 and the Homemade bullet guide, I added them to the receiver. Today, I hit the range to see if it would feed and function again, still without the ejector. Feeding was excellent since the feeding ramp is part of the barrel worked. I got similar results with ejection as before, so I will be next doing the ejectors. I will outline the metal width for the ejector. Important thing is I have solved the feeding ramp on the bullet guide, on this barreled unit. I took the top cover off and I did not have any spent cases in the receiver area. Most ejected in front of me, a few do not

    I also cut the previously made bullet guides for the ejectors, with Dremel cut off wheels. This took a short while and I used about 10 cut off wheels. I also drilled out the holes to hold the ejector in place, once I fit them. The ejectors will then be hardened and pinned into place. Then the bullet guides will need to be cosmetically cleaned and blued

    Getting there. Again I am not taking questions, just follow along
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    Last edited by sprat; 03-11-2020 at 06:00 PM.
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  9. #8
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    Looks good!

    I posted a bunch of good detail photos years ago, though they might have been lost in the photobucket crash... If you didn't save them, LMK and I can try to find them to repost.

  10. #9
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    Part 4
    I opened the ejector slot with the Dremel cut off wheels, as detailed in the last post, I then further opened up the ejector slot with a hacksaw blade, it is just about right and tight

    I decided to finalize the ejectors sooner than later, so I can hit the range, to check fit and function. As I stated earlier, I intended to use 1mm ak receiver scraps to make the ejectors. I have plenty of scrap, using graph paper, micrometer and paintersí tape.
    The thickness of the ejector thickness is 1 mm per the micrometer. Next, I took a piece of painterís blue tape and placed it on the good ejector from rifle # 1. I measured the thickness of the mag guide (ejector base). I cut the painters tape around the factory ejector, with a razor blade.

    I gently lifted the tape and placed on the graph paper, adding the thickness of the magazine guide. Now I have a good template.
    I cut out the paper template with scissors and placed it on the scrap receiver metal and drew around the template with a sharpie ( I wanted extra meat) Now with a hacksaw, I cut the sharpie lines, making two duplicate ejector blanks ( as I need two of them) Then lined up the sharpie marks and held the two blanks with a pair of vise grips, so they would not sperate and always line up . I placed the blanks in a vise, still held by the vise grips. Using a set of files, then trimmed down the blanks down to the exact dimensions found on my template,
    The ejectors bend into the mag guild well. I placed the ejectors (with help of a small tack hammer and very thin screwdriver) in the slot previously cut. I then bent, the homemade ejector. I applied pressure, using a piece of scrap wood.

    Next, I removed the ejector blank out of the magazine guide slot and then bent the tip flat to ride under the bolt, in the vise. Then with a fine file I removed excess and burrs, trimmed the ejector profile a wee bit, then re- fitted the ejectors again. The ejectors at this point sit very tight, in the slots. I placed the fitted magazine guide to the rifle receiver # 4 with the reprofiled/ fitted barrel with the integral bullet ramp, I turned two weeks ago

    I did it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! After 15plus years!! I got 2 scrap MPi-69s to come back to life
    with repurposed 22lr barrels and homemade bullet guides w/ejectors

    Yes, there were a few minor issues, but two things need to be remembered, these are not factory fitted parts (or non-matching individual parts). The receivers are held together with electrical screws and nuts, not rivets. I also found regardless of the rifle, hey prefer to run better with the top cover removed. I did get 50 rounds of cheap federal 22lr to fire and eject with no problems.
    The ejectors will now be heat treated, by standard procedure, then pinned into place. The magazine guides are also rough, so I will concentrate on making the magazine guides look pretty. Then assemble the two remaining rifles # 3 & 4, hopefully the range will still be open.

    Also, I decided I do not need the bolt hold open device, I have the all parts for the bolt hold open, just a lot of work to cut that. I could change my mind up till the day the magazine guide gets riveted into place
    Once the rifles start to perform properly flawlessly, the barrel work will be completed, then will rust blue all the parts (Mt Laurel formula) then rivet to finish

    I am now going to disassemble rifle # 1 & 2, as I do not need them at this time. They will be boxed for future sale.
    For the record rifles #1 thru #4 are East German training rifles built in semi-auto only mode
    Again I am not taking questions, just follow along. Thank you

    More to come
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  11. #10
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    Well done!
    needs moar AK

    or beer


  12. #11
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    The preliminary testing has been completed with one exception: the magazine guides,
    As indicated in previous threads. I utilized the feeding ramp as originally attached to the barrel this set up worked out fine, especially, since the installation of the ejectors. I decided to utilize the existing barrel without the attached feeding ramp or no feeding ramp guide. While testing this set up, it did work, but!!!!!!!!!! I had jams and mis-feeds. So, I decided to build a ramp as found on the original factory guides, utilizing left over scrap metal from the homemade guides

    Mig or Tig welding would be overkill, so I went with silver solder and mapp gas. This worked out fantastic. Measuring once and twice, before I trimmed the scrap into a new feeding ramp. I held it with a metal clamp in place, then in the vice.
    Once the new ramp and guide base cooled, I went to work on the contours and angles of the ramp based on the factory original. See the comparison photo. The feeding ramp came out beautiful, better than I hoped. I then pinned the ejectors in place.
    Next will be the rust bluing of all the parts except the factory new internals and the receiver.

    Since all the parts are not from the same rifle and some are homemade, plus I will need to range test the new feeding ramp. Luckily, I bought up lots of cheap 22lr fodder, before 2020.

    Kits # 1 & 2 are retired and boxed to be sold in the future.

    Once the bluing is complete, I will be referring to the kits for now on by their receivers respectfully rifle # 3 & #4, both of these receivers come de milled barrel sets, also the rear sights were both badly mangled, I had to order new rear sights from Numrich.

    On all the barrel parts had 50 % of the bluing was gone or replaced with rust ( removed with bronze/brass wool) The silver solder will not the rust blue. I may end up utilizing brownells gunkote or leave it on that specific guide, plus it will need to be tested.
    Next : the rust bluing process
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  13. #12
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    Part 5

    Rust bluing
    Since Kits 1 3,4 all had remnants for the original receivers, which were blued steel, not with black painted. Also, all the barrel stubs, front sights, handguard retainers were all blued. The original kits # 1 & 2 were all blued and 95% plus condition. The problem was the two recently purchased trunnions- rifles # 3 & 4 and front sights and handguard retainers were missing pins and were rusty 50%. I cleaned them with bronze wool to remove the rust, the two front sight & handguard units still attached to the front barrel stubs, came from Desert fox as did trunnion # 4, they were rusty. I assume due to the heat and lack of care afterwards.
    When I purchased the last front end set up (front sight & handguard retainer) from desert fox. I asked for the best non rusting set he had. They wire brushed it. Looked like shit. He did not even use a bronze/brass wheel. Amateur hour
    I WILL NEVER BUY PRODUCTS FROM DESERT FOX AGAIN.
    For the record all the internal parts, I purchased from Numrich were factory new, in fact most never assembled, some parts were used but in really, nice condition with 95% of the original blue.
    Back to refinishing, the barrel exteriors also need to be re-blued, after I turned them down, and silver soldered the chamber extensions. I removed the rear sights, I should also note that the rear sights on trunnions- rifles # 3 & 4 were bent and rusty, I saved the pins and springs and sight adjustment barrels. Then ordered new (brand new rear sights from Numrich). all the parts for the rifles ( except for the internals) were cleaned with bronze wool and / or fine sandpaper IE: the turned down barrels. I use Mountain laurel browning solution. I did tutorial on this about 5 years ago, there a plenty of others on the web.
    To rust blue you need, Distilled Water, thank god I bought a case of 6 last year. As it is unattainable now. I used a elongated plastic window planter from home depot, the holes are sealed with bath tub chalk. These elongated boxes are perfect for bluing barrels and small parts. One also needs stainless steel pots to boil the water, never substitute these items. If you want rust bluing. We have plenty of humidity here in S. Florida, so I just needed to coat the parts over night see photo
    After boiling the distilled water, I soaked the parts, then let sit for 10-15 minutes. Carding the bluing with fine steel wool for the first carding only, I wipe down will a old bathroom towel. The heat from the water allows the excesses moisture to dissipate, helped by laying out the blued items in the florida sun. The barrel ends are plugged with twisted plastic wrap stuffed into the barrel ends, to stop water and solution from entering the rifling. After the first carding the barrel was placed in the trunnion and pinned, then I repeat this 3-4 times carding with the old towel. Then added some baking soda with the last round of boiled distilled water, this stops the rust blue process. I then took a propane touch and gently heated the parts and oiled ( your favorite oil) then I assembled the remaining parts, after everything cooled down.
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    Part 6
    Assembly & Testing
    With endmills, the handguard retainers and front sights were pinned, headspacing the barrels. Headspacing was done by measuring the distance from the front of the trunnion and the face of the chamber as found on the two factory kits # 1 & 2. The handguards need to be assembled and held in a vise, while I end milled the pin holes. The front sight was easier than I thought. I placed the barrel unit’s upside down on a slab of straight and level steel, then checked with a level, the front sight lined up perfectly, then they were clamped in the small vise and pinned. This worked out fantastically,

    Rifles # 3 & 4 begin life
    Now, the two new front ends were completely assembled. Next was deciding which front end would go to which receiver (still not blued or riveted). In the process of cleaning and bluing, the better parts were segregated from the ones that had pitting under the new bluing. I decided that the nicer front end # 3 would go on the Turbothis FFL receiver. Matt makes an identical MPi-69 receiver, so I decided to go that route for the better kit. The other front end # 4 would get the very original blank, I made for Rifle # 1 back in the day, this was a Bent “U” receiver blank from the old days. Old time builders will remember “bent u blanks”, they came out before the flats.

    Assembly now, was again with the electric nuts and bolts, except the mag guides, they now had the rivets in place, but not permanently. At this point, I still did not know if the bullet guide that was silver soldered on the magazine guide even worked. So, rifle # 4 went to the range, this is the rifle with the substandard re-finished parts. The rifle shot 50 rounds of Remington 40 gr’s without skipping a beat, I tried out 4 magazines for fit and function, they all worked.

    Yesterday, I took a short trip to the range to test out both rifles, the new bullet guide that was silver soldered, worked flawlessly. Both rifles functioned like brand new with the top covers on??, no jams or mis feeds, all the while, hitting the old skeet used for target practice (allowed at my range). So we know the sights are properly aligned. I test fired about 200 rounds of cheap 36 & 40 grain 22LR for feeding, ejection and working in the parts. Except for plinking these two are ready for the next phase. I also found both rifles do not like to be overly tight, so when I rivet the rear and front trunnions & the mag guide, the rivets will not be set so hard.
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    Last edited by sprat; 04-22-2020 at 10:13 AM.
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  15. #14
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    Absolutely unique!
    Avatar is the butt stock marking of a new condition 1941 Portuguese contract K98 Mauser

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    Awesome work ans great payoff for the work you did. I always wanted one of those. I love the Romanian M10 trainers I have. Attached photo shows 2 consecutive numbered .Romanian M10.22 trainers and 1 that is a spare. I also have 2 more that are 2 digit serial numbers with factory threaded barrel.
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