Project Forging Code: Please contribute to an AKM Trunnion code database! - Page 3
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Thread: Project Forging Code: Please contribute to an AKM Trunnion code database!

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by jithaca View Post
    Tula 1969 ЛH4691 968 DEACT
    Thanks, Jerry! Did this one have the early Tula top cover, or was the top cover for sure original?
    "...a shadowy flight into the dangerous world of a man who does not exist!"
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  2. #32
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    Studying in detail the RGuns kits, its starting to look more and more likely that the majority of the 1968 Tula's are Fall/Winter examples, and with a few notable exceptions most of the 1969 kits are pretty much Spring/Summer builds. That would make sense, but for our purposes here I'd rather see a wider range of rifles spread across the entirety of both years.

    If some pf you guys are sitting on any 68-69's, please, please provide us with the codes! Even if it's just one kit, we need the info.
    Fiorentino likes this.
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tantal View Post
    Thanks, Jerry! Did this one have the early Tula top cover, or was the top cover for sure original?
    Early style cover
    Raised in New Mexico, where the Hell else do you sneak out in the backyard and shoot off an Atom Bomb or three, instead of a firecracker ...

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  5. #34
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    Alright, great!
    "...a shadowy flight into the dangerous world of a man who does not exist!"
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  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tantal View Post
    Studying in detail the RGuns kits, its starting to look more and more likely that the majority of the 1968 Tula's are Fall/Winter examples, and with a few notable exceptions most of the 1969 kits are pretty much Spring/Summer builds. That would make sense, but for our purposes here I'd rather see a wider range of rifles spread across the entirety of both years.

    If some pf you guys are sitting on any 68-69's, please, please provide us with the codes! Even if it's just one kit, we need the info.
    Wow- if you are able to deduce that already just from the data we have so far, I can't even begin to imagine what it'll yield in a years time. I absolutely cannot wait to see what this tells us about part transitions
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote"

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  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiorentino View Post
    Wow- if you are able to deduce that already just from the data we have so far, I can't even begin to imagine what it'll yield in a years time. I absolutely cannot wait to see what this tells us about part transitions
    Roger that, and it doesn't stop there, trust me!
    This emoticon (or is it idioticon in this case?) most aptly sums up my personal thoughts on us/me not collecting forging codes years ago,

    Think of all the hundreds of kits we've helped ID on this forum without so much as once asking to see the forging code? This is once again gonna be thought of as a lost opportunity, but maybe we can salvage some of it.

    What we have to do starting right now is make it a requirement when somebody posts the next "Help me ID my AKM parts" thread, lol.

    Mike, a day ago you mentioned not being able to make out many codes in deact images. I agree, I've scoured hundreds of images lately and you rarely see them clearly.

    I'd sure like to see some 1970 Izzy codes, BTW. Jerry and Saigaman and 1968Roadrunner could help out here.
    "...a shadowy flight into the dangerous world of a man who does not exist!"
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  8. #37
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    Hell I just might go bump all those threads asking! Haha. Seems like a really great opporunity for guys to repay the effort you put into those threads while only taking 2 minutes of their time. Since those kits are still for sale though, hopefully we'll get a decent amount still. It's an enormously cheap price to pay versus digging through hundreds of old threads to try and figure out each and every single damn part like I did!

    It really is a bit frustrating... just like the years I really really needed every serial number I could get, I had a decent picture of an example, and I just couldn't tell if that 4 was a 9 (etc)... and then needing to just give up for sake of the document being accurate. is right!

    I'm hoping it'll get easier once I familiarize myself with cyrillic. Here's a good example -





    Ugh, is it a Г or Т or what?! No question I need to take the time to learn cyrillic before I can analyze these better. For now I'm just saving all the pictures I come across
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote"

    -Benjamin Franklin



  9. #38
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    Yeah, that's a T.

    All the 1960 to early '63 Izzy's seem to start with a T.
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  10. #39
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    Izzy 1968 ГИ508 T1 Comm Bloc Kit

    Izzy 1972 ИГ1235 B4 PLO

    Izzy 1971 KO3364 H8 PLO

    Izzy 1970 HK3466 M3 PLO

    Izzy 1970 HK1323 M3 PLO

    Tula 1968 MД1157 138 Sportsmans Guide Kit
    Last edited by jithaca; 09-04-2014 at 03:59 AM.
    Tantal likes this.
    Raised in New Mexico, where the Hell else do you sneak out in the backyard and shoot off an Atom Bomb or three, instead of a firecracker ...

  11. #40
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    1969 Tula sn# HB7164 batch 6965 Copes kit
    Tantal likes this.
    Hey now!

  12. #41
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    Doug, as per your request, I was able to dig out the following:

    1963 Izhevsk AKMS, УВ3999, trunnion code В9, notes: PLO matched serial number kit
    1977
    Izhevsk AKMS, 951475, trunnion code Э6, notes: PLO matched serial number kit
    1977 Izhevsk AKMS, 983935, trunnion code Ю6, notes: barrel assembly and trunion from PLO kit
    1975 Izhevsk AKM, 149411, trunnion code П6, notes: PLO matched serial number kit
    1967, Tula AKM,
    ЛЕ3162, trunnion code 741, notes: cut barrel, matched serial number kit

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  13. #42
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    1971 Tula trunnion EA2702 batch 9052 Copes kit
    Tantal likes this.
    Hey now!

  14. #43
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    Izzy 1970 MP8336 H3 PLO

    Izzy 1970 TЛ1954 M1 PLO

    Izzy 1970 ГC4880 И6 Sportsmans Guide Kit
    Last edited by jithaca; 09-05-2014 at 08:37 AM.
    Tantal likes this.
    Raised in New Mexico, where the Hell else do you sneak out in the backyard and shoot off an Atom Bomb or three, instead of a firecracker ...

  15. #44
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    Thanks for all the recent contributions, guys!

    I wish the owners of all those hundreds of cut-barrel Copes/Sportsman's Guide/Atlantic kits were still around to step up to the plate! I am especially interested in those, as most of them were definitely outside of the standard range of the RGuns kits. It's obvious they took different routes going through the decades and finally making it to us, even if they might have been from the same originating exporter. Man, figuring out their decades-long journey as a group through Russian military service (minimal at best?), depot turn-in, UKR refurbishment, deep storage (?), military export to Bulgaria, commercial re-export to (?), demilitarization (when and by who?), import into the Us, and so on, continues to drive me nuts and is certainly a very Interesting mystery.

    In fact, if you have inside knowledge of any of this, or you were involved directly with any part of it, please feel free to drop me a PM. Anything you tell me can of course be kept strictly confidential.

    Getting back to the forging codes. I've been asked how we will go about determining any valuable information from them. It all boils down to chronology for me. In fact, anyone here can easily sit down and look at these for a few minutes and glean important data, and for peer review reasons I certainly invite you guys to do so! Once you sort in some kind of order, you see patterns jump right out at you almost instantly. However, if I'm wrong then providing misleading methodology or conclusions would certainly wreck our ability to double-check each other's work. The last think I want to do is post incorrect findings. They have a tendency to live on and on, on the net!

    Keep in mind that right now we are just gathering numbers and data, so every number counts! Once we as a group have been able to get a proper list together and hopefully isolate concrete patterns in the data, I'll be sure to post the results here for community peer review and practical use. I'm sure others plan to do the same. After all, the numbers were provided by the community.

    As for me, I really don't have the time or space here to go through a detailed explanation of my own personal methods for finding and confirming patterns in the codes, since it's mostly based on what i think I know about Russian production of that era. It also helps to have some sort of working knowledge of Soviet manufacturing processes, and a familiarity with the Cyrillic alphabet doesn't hurt, either. Knowing what parts Izhmash or Tula was using at the beginning of the year compared to the end of the year is an important verification tool. I plan to cover this and all other production-based research I've done in the most excruciating detail in my upcoming book, but I figure very few here want to wade through that kind of dry description by somebody who is known to have a severe case of diarrhea of the mouth. Most people here have real lives and limited time, and would rather see an easy to read chart with batch codes and go on, right?

    In any case, if we can get even one or two years mapped out in their entirely, like '68-'69, that info would translate into a much broader understanding of Soviet rifle production methods in general. If you have cut barrel kits, or built rifles made of cut barrel kits, lets hear about it! remember, we do not have to have the entire serial number, just the beginning numeric digit with 0's or X's substituting for the correct number of digit spaces will do!

    Thanks again, guys!
    Doug
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  16. #45
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    I am guessing 70 and 71 are the most prolific PLO kits
    Raised in New Mexico, where the Hell else do you sneak out in the backyard and shoot off an Atom Bomb or three, instead of a firecracker ...

 

 
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