Interesting possibly early stamped receiver photo
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    Interesting possibly early stamped receiver photo

    I found this picture while browsing and I immediately noticed that the front trunnion rivets are Soviet pattern. It appears that early on in the reverse-development stage of the stamped receiver 56 variant they incorporated the Soviet rivet pattern only to drop it and run with the commonly seen staggered rivet pattern style.

    The picture is not dated but it's description stated "early 70's". I have a 16 mil (1971) military clone that is the typical staggered pattern so it must have been made in the late 60's. Anyone know when they made the switch?

    Anyway, never seen it before and thought I would share to discuss:

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    What was the source?

    I ask because somebody posted an unusual picture last week that turned out to be a reenactor using a black and white photo filter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard W. View Post
    What was the source?

    I ask because somebody posted an unusual picture last week that turned out to be a reenactor using a black and white photo filter.
    Picture was found for sale on eBay. It's original and legit as the seller has a large supply of more original PLA photos for sale.
    Floppy3304() likes this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard W. View Post
    What was the source?

    I ask because somebody posted an unusual picture last week that turned out to be a reenactor using a black and white photo filter.
    hes making a face because its cold but also because ho downs be blowin up his apple iPhone. see it in that there front pocket?
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    DISCLAIMER; I live in a murderous world imploding over other folks secret agendas. in doing so im told to pretend to act ''normal'' like everyone else and hide under a rock and make normal sheep noises. kinda like a sheep watching its family being led into an automated meat grinder. think about the other sheep saying don't draw attention to yourself they might target you next. F*#K THAT! stand up and make a last stand for humanity! Robbie f*#king parker were live! WAKE THE F*#K UP!!!!

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    Guess no one cares to discuss the history of these.

    Next time I'll post a photo of a Polytech... something people actually care about.
    BR7.62, lopojo and evolixsurf like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gregsthe1 View Post
    Guess no one cares to discuss the history of these.

    Next time I'll post a photo of a Polytech... something people actually care about.
    Why the snooty attitude? My experience on forums dictates that if people aren't posting to your thread, they probably don't have anything to contribute. Seeing as this might be a rare rifle pattern, there may not be much information about it out there.

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    No 'tude, just joking around. Import variant collectors rule the Chicom collecting world so I was just poking fun at them. I prefer military clones personally so the photo sparked my interest.

    Was mainly just surprised that not even one reply has occurred, which is kinda funny in it's own right. All good though, I'll surely get a more realistic chance of having a decent conversation started here than the AKFiles
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    I try not to post something useless and waste peoples time scrolling through it(like most others constantly do). But damn im intrigued by your photo! I would love to get some more information into this subject. Thanks for posting!!!
    WTB:

    Russian Type 1 or 2 parts/kit

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    There are at least 20 different factory codes for the stamped guns, so trying to pin point manufacturing dates or even a pattern is difficult at best.

    Also, remember that the Chinese and Soviets had a "falling out" in the early 60s (Wikipedia says 61)... And when does Type 56 stamped production start? Mid 60s?

    While it is possible that the Chinese copied an AKM receiver, I would venture that they didn't make very many, if they even started production. I would imagine that (like the thicker receiver), the offset rivet was designed to make manufacture cheaper/easier / in line with Chinese steel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stottman View Post
    While it is possible that the Chinese copied an AKM receiver, I would venture that they didn't make very many, if they even started production. I would imagine that (like the thicker receiver), the offset rivet was designed to make manufacture cheaper/easier / in line with Chinese steel.
    I call it Chinesium.
    It's exactly like what's happening with their J-20 fighter right now.
    Get up on your feet, Don't look so obsolete, And thrash like an athlete!

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    Tried to backtrack the image and found a companion photo.

    I suppose this handsome devil must have been posing to show his folks back home what he looks like as a recruit.

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    It's obviously the earliest stamped variant, I would think as a first attempt at an AKM clone. May or may not coincide with Sino/Soviet split.

    I do know that all AK's were made only at factory /66\ for at least the first 10 or 15 years. Same with the SKS, all were made at factory /26\ for the first decade or so. Other factories' production of both AK's and SKS's are not seen in serial ranges that are earlier than the mid 60's.

    I am confident that the odd rifle pictured is made at factory /66\ sometime in the early 60's. I'm sure it was being made along side of the milled guns at /66\ for a good amount of time before getting the thumbs up to replace it altogether.

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    Zhao Ruizhi, known as Rui, was the leader and in charge of all Type 56 development and production. This also included China’s SKS and RPD development and production. He was the team leader for all the associated engineers. The Type 56 Assault Rifle (FOM 1005-5-2-7.62-4) was not the original Chinese designation. In China, It was originally designated “56-Type Submachine Gun” and then changed several years later. The reason was based on their ideology of “all people are soldiers”, emphasizing the role of traditional rifles, which is another subject altogether.

    Early on, 56-Type submachine guns were not equipped in the army, but only in the infantry class with a small amount of equipment. They were mainly used to provide suppression fire...a submachine gun role. After the Sino-Indian border war, the number of 56-Type submachine guns gradually began to increase and the submachine gun became the main weapon of the infantry class. The infantry class prior to 1970 -- only the squad leader and deputy squad leader were equipped with 56-Type submachine guns. The other soldiers were generally equipped with 56-Type semi-automatic rifles.

    Now to your question -- most books and credible articles on the subject will put the first produced T56 stamped variant in the mid 1960s, with no specific year. However, a few Chinese authors specifically state the first stamped variant was developed and produced in 1967, which is what I believe to be the correct date as well. I have never seen in any books or articles that I have or have read, that date the first stamped T56 produced in the early 1960s. The first stamped variant was developed and produced in 1967. It wasn't until 1963, that the Chinese began production of the milled Type 56-1.

    In 1964-67, Zhao Ruizhi (as team leader) spend a lot of time partaken in the construction of Albanian Defense Project 55 -- during contact with AKM. After his return in early 1967, he and his team began research and development on the stamped receiver 56-Type submachine gun. Production of the stamped receiver cost less, reduced the weight, and was easier and faster to manufacture. 56-type submachine gun production lines were gradually changed to accommodate the production of stamping machine casing, but the original equipment for the milling machine 56-type submachine gun was still in use.

    The first stamped 56-Type submachine gun was referred to as “First Punch” in China and it was developed in 1967. Most of these early stamped T56s were later destroyed, so they are extremely rare. There was a progression in the receiver development, which I’ll illustrate. The majority of T56s exported to Vietnam were milled but a significant number of stamped variants were also used in Vietnam. I believe the earliest photo I have from Vietnam with a stamped receiver is 1970.

    Not the greatest photos but the top receiver is one of the first 56-Type stamped receivers "First Punch" (likely used in Vietnam in very small numbers), the middle one is the second variation (also used during the Vietnam War), and the bottom one is the receiver that was mass produced. Notice the rivet difference between the "First Punch" and the second variation. Note: There may be other stamped receiver variations but I haven't seen them. Of course we know about marking variations but that's not what we are talking about.


    "First Punch" example. Note: The Chinese also referred to the early stamped variants as "First Punch Red".


    Another "First Punch" example.


    Vietnam War: Photo taken on May 15, 1975 as they celebrated victory in Saigon. Note the second stamped variation receiver. This one is not a "First Punch", but is the second variation.
    Last edited by Bunker9939; 03-19-2017 at 12:40 AM.

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    From personal experience, I have held three different examples that were in the 16 mil range (1971). All three were the commonly seen staggered rivet pattern and they were each underfolding stock "-1" models. I have never seen a 12, 13, 14, or 15 mil stamped example before, so that falls in line with the info about them having taken a few years to reach the end result with a start at it in '67.

    Thank you for all the great information!

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    Quote Originally Posted by gregsthe1 View Post
    From personal experience, I have held three different examples that were in the 16 mil range (1971). All three were the commonly seen staggered rivet pattern and they were each underfolding stock "-1" models. I have never seen a 12, 13, 14, or 15 mil stamped example before, so that falls in line with the info about them having taken a few years to reach the end result with a start at it in '67.

    Thank you for all the great information!
    Im not so sure the Type 56-1 models fall into the (1955 + trunnion series = year of manufacture). Take a look at Stottman's picture he took of a "second variation" type 56 pre-dimple variety:


    The trunnion is numbered as a 17 series, which should place manufacture around 1972.

    Now, look at a 16 series type 56-1, and you will see that it has a dimpled receiver:



    Why would the Chinese go from a dimpled receiver to a non-dimpled receiver? I don't think they did, I think the dating system for the type 56-1 is different. Bunker9939 said that the Chinese started producing the 56-1 models in 1963, which would make sense that the type 56-1 would be dated as (1962 or 1963 + trunnion series = year of manufacture). I think it is more likely that this 16 series 56-1 was manufactured around 1978/1979 rather than 1971, that is assuming that 1963 is the first year the Chinese produced the 56-1. I also had pictures of deactivated 14 and 15 series type 56-1 with receiver dimples, unfortunately they were lost when my hard drive failed.

    The same could be said about the type 56-2 rifles as well.

    Below is a 4 series 56-2 with receiver dimples and a newer style integral bullet guide trunnion, as indicated by the slanted trunnion ears. I can assure you this rifle was not made in 1959, more like 1983/1984.




    This is an observation to reinforce the thought that when the Chinese made a new rifle variation, they started the year series for the new variation with the first year of production. They didn't simply use one series for all variations of a certain rifle. Just an observation though, it may be completely wrong.
    Last edited by miner1436; 03-19-2017 at 10:40 PM.
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