Kill the Myth of the RED DOT's - Page 2
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Thread: Kill the Myth of the RED DOT's

  1. #16
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    nitrogen leaks are a bitch....
    pics / vid required for validation

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by voron View Post
    i was thinking exact same thing

    kinda that firelube test?


    how's 660 yards hitting a 16 inch plate, still with spotter of course. I call that quite impressive with a red dot!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWJE7Kpz0C4

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by traak's View Post
    nitrogen leaks are a bitch....:d


    nice!

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    Quote Originally Posted by iceman47 View Post
    how's 660 yards hitting a 16 inch plate, still with spotter of course. I call that quite impressive with a red dot!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWJE7Kpz0C4
    That's not bad with open sights (660 yds). What more will the red dot have to offer?
    MAGA- let's get this show on the road!

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  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ram Rod View Post
    That's not bad with open sights (660 yds). What more will the red dot have to offer?

    Maybe coffee making who knows!!

    it's that eternal argument isn't it, will go on till doomsday.

    small stationary type targets, over a long distance, 500 to 2500 yards can't beat normal scopes in my book anyway, red dots just have NO hope to compete, don't even go there.
    But 10 yards to maybe 3 to 500 yards with quick target acquisition, and great all round field of vision, especially on fast moving targets, and your not too worried about it being a 12 inch spread, red dots compete and can surpass normal scope abilities in these areas. back to the old saying again, it's horses for course. But, your never gonna get that pin point targeting ( the guys left eye) on that 600 yard shot with a red dot. I am not going to be shooting coke cans at 800 yards not with an AK anyway. so for what an AK is best at, overall the red dot wins for me anyway! As said; on a oil drum sort of anywhere at 300 yards I will be a very happy bunny, that's very possible even for an idiot like me, with a good red dot!

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    On another AK forum I posted that it would be nice to see a test where mannequins or torso silhouettes were put in spread-out groupings at various 100-300 meter ranges and all dressed in civilian clothing with one or two at any particular distance designated the "bad guy", (holding a rifle or pistol, or wearing a suicide vest, etc.) and then engagement times recorded using red dots vs. magnified optics such as an ACOG.

    Rob Ski from AK-47/74 Operators Union replied with:
    US Army did this already when they were testing ACOGS before those could enter the service. They had guys from AMU unit running it in CQBs and then at extended distances - all in competition to M68 (Aimpoints). It was really interesting test, guys were wired with sensors and etc - real stuff. They found out that reaction times differences from ACOGs vs M68s in CQBs were acceptable, but ACOGs really kicked M68s ass in extended range shooting at unknown distance targets and etc. So, here you have it, 4x scope will rule irons or red dot all day long in extended range shooting. Especially if targets aren't really easy to identify (they blend in either with vegetation or other backgrounds).
    romaniang likes this.
    "The color in which the whole of the 'Modern Mind' is dyed is essentially stupidity."
    Hilaire Belloc

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    If benched and you have a spotter, anything is possible. I love my RDS for up close but past two hundred, breathing hard from crap supported positions, the lower power stuff really shines IME.

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    I was able to score Rifleman at my very first Appleseed with a 3moa Burris Fastfire. Just sayin....

  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belloc View Post
    On another AK forum I posted that it would be nice to see a test where mannequins or torso silhouettes were put in spread-out groupings at various 100-300 meter ranges and all dressed in civilian clothing with one or two at any particular distance designated the "bad guy", (holding a rifle or pistol, or wearing a suicide vest, etc.) and then engagement times recorded using red dots vs. magnified optics such as an ACOG.

    Rob Ski from AK-47/74 Operators Union replied with:
    that makes sense Belloc. In my range i have targets set up at 200 and 400 meters (max for now, winter, 600 cant be done), both steel and man size silhouettes, During summer i purposely have the hay guy NOT to cut the grass around the target, but leave some of the tall weeds standing. This makes it a bit more challenging/realistic for me and my friends. Using open sights past 300 meters is really tough as the vegetation begins to blurr out the target. Even-though the human full size silhouette is nearly 20 inches wide, its not easy to hit it with open sights. Once you apply 2.8x 1P78 it becomes real easy.

    In the video above you have a nice GIANT Glowing Orange target, which is really to delineate from the background. Now if the test was redone with a similar colour target as the background, it would be much more difficult to hit.

    couple years ago i did a test (its buried in the archives) where i shot my RPK-74 prone, open sights at a IDPA style silhouette (just a tan-ish silhouette, not easy to identify, thin line borders) compared to a traditional black/green/red silhouette at the distance of 400 meters. Out of 10 shots only 6 made in on paper compared to shooting an easily identifiable silhouette. Once i slapped on my 1P78 the miss ratio went down to 0.
    endoh likes this.

  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by voron View Post
    that makes sense Belloc. In my range i have targets set up at 200 and 400 meters (max for now, winter, 600 cant be done), both steel and man size silhouettes, During summer i purposely have the hay guy NOT to cut the grass around the target, but leave some of the tall weeds standing. This makes it a bit more challenging/realistic for me and my friends. Using open sights past 300 meters is really tough as the vegetation begins to blurr out the target. Even-though the human full size silhouette is nearly 20 inches wide, its not easy to hit it with open sights. Once you apply 2.8x 1P78 it becomes real easy.

    In the video above you have a nice GIANT Glowing Orange target, which is really to delineate from the background. Now if the test was redone with a similar colour target as the background, it would be much more difficult to hit.

    couple years ago i did a test (its buried in the archives) where i shot my RPK-74 prone, open sights at a IDPA style silhouette (just a tan-ish silhouette, not easy to identify, thin line borders) compared to a traditional black/green/red silhouette at the distance of 400 meters. Out of 10 shots only 6 made in on paper compared to shooting an easily identifiable silhouette. Once i slapped on my 1P78 the miss ratio went down to 0.
    Not only a nice giant glowing orange target, but also right in the middle of a nice bright sunny day no less.
    Dang climate change! And thanks for reporting your own first-hand results. As you said, makes sense.


    "The color in which the whole of the 'Modern Mind' is dyed is essentially stupidity."
    Hilaire Belloc

  12. #26
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    The myth of the red dot can mean a lot of things. I need to buy a shot clock. At 0-50 yards I don't think that I'm any faster with a red dot than I am with three dot tritium Meprolight sights. At 100, red dot is faster because my eyes got old.

  13. #27
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    Can we please back up and introduce some useful and accurate numbers? A 1 MOA dot covers:

    1" @ 100yds
    2" @ 200yds
    3" @ 300yds
    .
    .
    .
    10" @ 1000yds
    And so on.

    If a small VW is 10 feet long, a 1 MOA dot would cover it at 12000 yards, over 7miles.

    Get the idea? Feel free to do the math, just the simplest of geometry.
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  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Belloc View Post
    On another AK forum I posted that it would be nice to see a test where mannequins or torso silhouettes were put in spread-out groupings at various 100-300 meter ranges and all dressed in civilian clothing with one or two at any particular distance designated the "bad guy", (holding a rifle or pistol, or wearing a suicide vest, etc.) and then engagement times recorded using red dots vs. magnified optics such as an ACOG.

    Rob Ski from AK-47/74 Operators Union replied with:

    MANNEQUINS, NO, NO politicians and banksters, live ones please!! makes far more fun...

  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZAK View Post
    Can we please back up and introduce some useful and accurate numbers? A 1 MOA dot covers:

    1" @ 100yds
    2" @ 200yds
    3" @ 300yds
    .
    .
    .
    10" @ 1000yds
    And so on.

    If a small VW is 10 feet long, a 1 MOA dot would cover it at 12000 yards, over 7miles.

    Get the idea? Feel free to do the math, just the simplest of geometry.
    Well that sure has messed up the VW contingent, and why not a Ford to. I think 12000 yards is way, way too much for even that big bad ass Barrett 50 Cal sniper, let alone the humble AK. The AK is meant to be a short ish to medium range nasty boy, 5 to 500 yards, in my book anyway. it does that exceptionally well. both eyes open targeting system type red dots, for me are a great aid especially for old gits like me whos eyes are going west. That 80 to 250 350 yard gives us back that edge, well a bit anyway. But no red dots going a stay with a good scope at those 1000 + to 2500 yard take downs. isn't there a place for them all at the table of shooting ?

  16. #30
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    Not that it is rocket science but here is a video on the difference in a few MOA red dot sizes at 100 yards on a silhouette.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yXhESINxC4

 

 
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