WASR 3 Ejection and Extraction issues
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Thread: WASR 3 Ejection and Extraction issues

  1. #1
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    WASR 3 Ejection and Extraction issues

    I plan to post this on a few boards, in hopes that more eyes can help pinpoint the problem.


    Firstly, thank you in advance to all that can and do help.
    I bought this WASR 3 that I knew from the start had problems with ejecting. I am a gunsmith, but I don't specialize in the AK platform, so I've been reading a lot and learning what I can. However at this point, I don't know what the problem is. It's having failures to eject and failures to extract. Three predominate malfunctions occur.
    1. The extractor won't yank the casing out of the chamber after firing.
    2. The extractor will let go of the expended case prematurely, causing a stovepipe.
    3. The extractor will never let go of the case, causing the bolt to ride back forward with the case still attached. This jams a casing into the barrel wall or front trunnion. Obviously from here, a new round cannot be fed into the chamber.


    In general, the ejection can seem a bit weak at times, and the ejection pattern is often around 2-3 o'clock.


    The action always cycles all the way back, and proceeds to go forward as long as a casing is not in its way.


    This gun is "new." It came from the factory with these defects, and obviously hasn't been fired much. It was bought new like four years ago, and I don't think it was fired or used enough to wear out any parts. I recontoured the hammer so that it strikes the rear of the bolt more squarely. The malfunctions occurred before and after this modification. I have tested the gun with Independence, American Eagle, and PMC XTAC 5.56 ammo in 55, 55, and 62 grain respectively.


    The bolt and carrier ride pretty smoothly in the rails, and the receiver isn't bent any which way that I can see. The rails seem straight, have no burrs, and are parallel and such.


    The magazine is of the Romanian type, that look just like Weigers. I'm waiting for a Weiger and a Circle Ten that I ordered, to test whether or not it's the magazine.


    In regards to the magazine's position, my Romanian mag has some wobble up and down, and side to side. But the gun feeds reliably, with the only problems being extraction and ejection. Would the magazine cause failures to eject or extract somehow?


    I thought the extractor may be the issue, so I cut a piece of drill rod less than 1/8" long and placed it into the hole the extractor spring sits in, to add to the extractor spring tension. I did this because it was easy and not permanent. The extractor now grips the casing very tightly, and the malfunctions persist. So I don't think that's the problem.


    My ejector is about one hundredth too wide, I believe. From the outside of the receiver to the tip of the ejector measures .600, and I've read that they're supposed to be .590 on a 5.56. That said, it doesn't seem to interfere with the bolt. Could this cause the ejection problem?


    I have cleaned the chamber and gas port pretty well, along with the rest of the gun.


    Here's the fun part. I made a slow motion video of the gun firing, and I'll post a link to it here. This video only demonstrates part of the problem, and I couldn't trim it. Much of it is just me awkwardly clearing malfunctions in slow motion. I'm not proficient with AKs.


    4:30 - Shooting starts
    5:08 - Weak ejection
    5:13 - Stovepipe
    7:06 - I start shooting again
    7:45 - Failure to extract
    13:40 - I shoot again
    13:53 - Failure to extract again.


    https://www.dropbox.com/s/max3nmj272...%20AM.mov?dl=0

  2. #2
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    A few things to add:


    For one, this rifle hand cycles perfectly. It'll strip, feed, extract, eject, everything flawlessly if I'm doing it by hand. The issues only occur when I fire it.


    About the extraction issues:
    I'm pretty sure that started when I shimmed the extractor to increase its spring tension. No worry, as I can easily reverse that. The casings weren't torn up, and they're easy to remove from the chamber with a fingernail.


    Before I shimmed the extractor spring, the ejection seemed stronger and extraction was fine, but the casings wouldn't always eject, such as I describe in malfunction type #3 in my original post. So this is the malfunction I'd like to focus on. I took a slow motion video of this occurring prior to my temporary modifications to the extractor, and it shows the failure to eject.


    Somehow, the casing is staying on the extractor, after the action cycles completely. My ejector is .600 wide, which is actually too long according to 5.56 AK specs I've read on this board. It looks to be right where it should in relation to my bolt, and it seems physically impossible for the casing not to smack that ejector. I don't get it.


    Here's that video of this particular malfunction.


    0:07 - I start shooting
    1:14 - Malfunction occurs


    https://www.dropbox.com/s/n4j6u9zlvb...%20PM.mov?dl=0

  3. #3
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    Hello there and thank you for posting! I am having a problem with multiple failures to extract as well from my WASR 3. I bought this gun on a recent trip without looking too closely into it; and, as it turns out, it has a long list of well-documented issues. I would like to keep the gun, nothwithstanding, as I love the idea of a 223/556 AK and I like a good project.

    here are some of the things I plan to check into or address:

    1. (And probably the most vexing of the issues my gun exhibits) a failure to eject/extract. This is almost always followed by a live round from the mag being fed directly into the unejected and still-chambered spent case. Some ejected cases exhibit scrape marks on the rim and dinged up and bent case mouths. This happens at any time, with any magazine. so far, I have only used Romanian Weiger copies or actual Weiger magazines I bought to check this out.

    2. I have only used brass-cased ammo and just stopped by Walmart earlier this evening and picked up some steel-cased Tulammo to try. I will update on how that goes. However, based on past experience, the FTE's happen on any magazine at any time with any brass ammo. PMC worked flawlessly with a hot barrel after jamming all day with Federal, and then on the next trip to the range jammed all day on PMC. No rhyme or reason. The Chamber was wire brushed between each test.


    3. I have thoroughly cleaned the extractor and chamber, both with a wire brush. No luck there either. I would like to replace the extractor spring and recoil spring as some people have reported success with either or both.

    4. As far as costly proprietary magazines go, I am looking into the various AR magazine magwell conversions out there. The mag catch on my CAI WASR 3 exhibits great difficulty getting magazines to fit in or release. I am capable of machining either the mags or the mag-catch myself, but as far as fit goes, the eastern bloc magazines I have been using fit super tight (with no noticeable play). Of note and possible importance, though is that the feed geometry of the mags, both Romanian copies and east German originals are pretty different from each other.

    5. As of yet, I have only shot .223 through it of one brand or loading or another. Ak's are notoriously finicky about ammo and I want to more comprehensively test my rifle with both steel case and 5.56 as well.

    6. The last thing I think of as worth mentioning is the bolt. The WASR 3 uses a shorter length bolt (than a standard AK) and the milling inside the bolt carrier channels where the bolt rotates is crude and uneven. Could this compound my extraction issues? possibly, right? I don't know. I am looking into replacement bolts and BCG's and have heard some rumors but intend to research this further.

    The fit and finish of Century Arms' WASR 3's is notoriously lousy. Almost everything you find out there is pretty disparaging. But not everything! A few WASR 3 owners love their guns and report standard AK-like reliability and performance. I, too, wish to be in the lucky minority of WASR 3 owners that have a working and reliable rifle!

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    Have no experience with 223 AKs or WASR 3. Just bumping this up so hopefully someone who does know sees it.

    As for the fit and finish that's pretty standard for WASR, which is only imported by Century Arms. Most AKs are not about the fit but about the function. Some are a little tighter fitting but not a whole lot. The finish isn't great but it's just ment to keep the elements off which it does.

    Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

  6. #5
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    I also own a "sick" WASR3 though mine does not have extraction problems. The magwell on mine was machined off center and causes feeding problems. Posting so I will remember to read this when I have more time.
    Constantly studying spots welds, mag well dimple shapes, center support rivet heads and selector markings for the last 12 years...

    BTW - Keep your BFH away from my AK!

    WTB Late East German 7.62 top cover and gas tube numbered 687.

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    Sounds similar to the issues I'm having with an M90NP.

    You ever figure anything out?
    "God's away on business."

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    Hi all, it's been so long since I posted that I couldnt remember my old password, but here I am with an update! I fixed the wasr 3 and all its issues. I only got around to it last month, but after ruminating on it for a year and a half or so, I felt I had the solution. First, my deductions: 1. Based on the double feeds, I surmised there must be some bolt drag somewhere. Indeed, upon closer inspection, the bottom of the ejector had wear marks showing through the surface treatment. This was visible through the bottom of the mag well --while holding the rifle upside-down. 2. Additionally, the amount of drag on the rearward bolt motion was exacerbated by a hammer face that was too high up. The hammer was also installed at a slightly canted angle. The cant was observable both from a cursory visual inspection and also from linear drag marks on just one half of the hammer face exposing the raw, white steel underneath the surface blacking. 3. Thirdly, the top cover was dragging against the bolt carrier in both rearward and forward motion impulses. 4. The rails (on both sides of the receiver) that the bolt was riding on were not uniform, straight, or smooth. This caused minor, but noticeable drag as well. 5. Lastly, the diagonal cam slots and bearing surfaces of the bolt itself had rough machining, imprecise alignment to camming surfaces, and the groove the which the ejector travelled was also labelled a suspect. This is what I did: 1.Using a sorta fine grit 250 grit or so, I gently sanded the top and bottom of the ejector around the places I saw drag marks thtough the finish. This produced immediate results. Go slowly with this as with all repairs, if you try this at home. Periodically check to function test the rifle unloaded. Go only as far as you need to. You should be able to see the ejector slide through the bolt face from the bottom of the rifle through the magwell without catching. Do NOT use a dremel for this. You have been warned!!!! Once i had it clear the bolt, i worked my way up to at least 800 grit giving a few gently swipes till i had it polished where i wanted it. I may have chamfered a few sharp edges a bit, too. 2.the hammer cant and height were fixed at thr same time by gently and MINIMALLY reprofiling the hammer face. The hammer face is thr part that strikes the rear of the bolt, both when firing and cocking. Same as above, give it a few good swipes with a medium grit paper. I started with something in the 250ish range and periodically function tested every 10 swipes or so. Do not overwork the material. Go slowly and with patience here. I polished it once i had it adjusted and worked my way up between about 4 grafes of paper to probably around 1200 or so grit. 3. Again, where the top cover dragged on thr bolt carrier (or vice versa), i used small hand files and a dremal to chamfer some sharp edges and bring back the area, primarily by the charging handle, that was causing friction. I polished with a dremel, buffing wheel, and compound. 4. I lightly polished the rails on both sides starting with a medium paper in the 200 range and again working my way up 1000 or so. Top and bottom. 5. This was the hardest. Where the bolt rides over the hammer, the ramp and flats were hand polished to 2000 grit. The machine marks and all bearing surfaces, including the ejector groove, likewise. In some cases, i had to carefully mill out rough spots where the locking lugs lock the bolt. If you have to ask what that means, don't attempt it. It eill likely not be necessary for most people, anyway. Now my rifle is 100% reliable. I did not change out the extractor spring but did aquire an ak-74 spring just in case before i tried to repair the rifle. So far, i have not had to use the spring. Sorry for any typos, etc. Also my apologies for taking so long to update. Total work time, by the way, was like two hours.
    MPiKM-72 likes this.

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    Also i have live-fire function tested the rifle with 300 rounds or so of mixed steel and brass case ammunition. Not a single problem of any kind through weiger, romanian, and bulgarian mags. Good luck out there
    MPiKM-72 likes this.

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    Sorry for the multiple posts. I alsoo GENTLY polished the mag catch on the rifle and hand fit all my wasr 3 223 ak mags by using a small hand file on the locking tab of each magazine. A few good swipes on the botyom rear of the magazines' locking tabs is all it took to get eack one of them to fit just so. Everything i did here amiunts to hand fitting the rifle. If you have any metalworking experience, or have maybe hand fit a 1911, this should be easy for you!
    MPiKM-72 likes this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Florida Man! View Post
    Sorry for the multiple posts. I alsoo GENTLY polished the mag catch on the rifle and hand fit all my wasr 3 223 ak mags by using a small hand file on the locking tab of each magazine. A few good swipes on the botyom rear of the magazines' locking tabs is all it took to get eack one of them to fit just so. Everything i did here amiunts to hand fitting the rifle. If you have any metalworking experience, or have maybe hand fit a 1911, this should be easy for you!

    Great write up. I have a WASR3 as well, and just recently had the front sight replaced with a FSB/GB unit because the cant annoyed me. I initially purchased it w/o the bolt, but fortunately I contacted Century, and they had one, which turned out to be the numbers matching bolt for my rifle. Have yet to fire it, but should I experience any issues, I know what to look at as possibilities.

    Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tower06 View Post
    Great write up. I have a WASR3 as well, and just recently had the front sight replaced with a FSB/GB unit because the cant annoyed me. I initially purchased it w/o the bolt, but fortunately I contacted Century, and they had one, which turned out to be the numbers matching bolt for my rifle. Have yet to fire it, but should I experience any issues, I know what to look at as possibilities.

    Thanks.
    You bought a lottery ticket after that bolt match up - right?
    Constantly studying spots welds, mag well dimple shapes, center support rivet heads and selector markings for the last 12 years...

    BTW - Keep your BFH away from my AK!

    WTB Late East German 7.62 top cover and gas tube numbered 687.

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    Mine will require a little more than polishing...

    I took a MIG welding class in July to make sure I knew enough about safety - don't want to burn down the facility while trying to add metal to the right side of the receiver.

    Last edited by MPiKM-72; 08-18-2017 at 07:33 AM.
    Constantly studying spots welds, mag well dimple shapes, center support rivet heads and selector markings for the last 12 years...

    BTW - Keep your BFH away from my AK!

    WTB Late East German 7.62 top cover and gas tube numbered 687.

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by MPiKM-72 View Post
    You bought a lottery ticket after that bolt match up - right?
    I was surprised to say the least when it showed up in the mail.
    MPiKM-72 likes this.

 

 

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