US Palm Magazine Test (Update 10 Feb 2011)
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    US Palm Magazine Test (Update 10 Feb 2011)

    Ok here we go:
    I have been waiting a long time to finally get this underway- I purchased 2 US Palm magazines from One Source Tactical (OST).

    Price was 29.95ea.


    I began with a simple notion; test these magazines under normal operational conditions while down range-firstly I am not going to spear, bayonet, perforate, break-dance with or try to destroy these magazines via any special means; just simple “load and shoot” tests and a couple simple drop tests possibly at a later date. I will note any and all malfunctions and their cause.
    When I received the magazines I looked them over a little bit and took them to the range a few days later.

    Pros:
    Very robust construction; it has a sheet stainless steel reinforcement for the front locking tab, rear locking tab, and internal reinforcement molded inside of the magazine tower.
    Strong spring.
    Loads fairly easily.
    Easy gripping surfaces on the front and back of the magazine due to molded horizontal corrugations.

    Possible Issues:
    Lacks steel reinforcements in magazine lip area- could be an issue or maybe not: It hasn’t been a problem in the past with other magazine types tested.
    No witness hole present to see if magazine is full-for many this is not a problem for me it is-albeit a minor one.
    They do not insert into the magazine well opening quite as easily as steel or Bakelite’s but still easily enough.
    They feed almost as smoothly as Bakelite or steel magazines-not necessarily an issue though.

    Cons:
    Magazine is bulky and does not feel right in my hand and does not sit well inside of military issue pouches. There is a special set up available to carry the magazines, which is available from a few sources but trying to use existing pouches could prove problematic in some cases (+/-).
    Not able to be disassembled for routine maintenance.

    Range Testing:
    Weapon used: Hungarian AKM, the weapon is cleaned and lubed before every test. I had fired about 300 rounds from it before testing; no issues noted. I also gaged the weapon with military gages: The weapon passed all tests with flying colors.

    Edited to add: New test info to the title
    "odio vitae semper dissolubilis"

    "Ludo mentis sciem"

    "Senecta aetas viresque, atque perfidium expugnat"

    "sic semper purgamentus Yugo kalashnikov! Tempus orbem ad excoquam eorum et dimittetur eis!"

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    Re: US Palm Magazine Test

    Test 1: Basic Functionality
    520 rounds fired: Magazine #1 270 rounds fired, Magazine #2 250 rounds fired.

    Round 1: (16 Jun) 140 rounds: 70/magazine mixed semi and FA. No malfunctions noted.
    In my first round of range tests I started by taking the magazines out of their factory bags and loading them on the range.

    Round 2: (Wed 23 Jun) 180 rounds: 90/magazine mixed semi and FA/Burst:1 Malfunction.
    The magazines were not kept loaded in between tests 1 and 2.

    Today’s observations: I noticed during testing that the magazines did not seem to feed as smooth as with other types I use (Bakelite and steel).

    Malfunction Noted: Double feed with magazine #1 around 5th shot, semi-auto: Due to magazine.

    Wed 23 June: Loaded magazines. Will put out in the sun all day tomorrow and Friday until Friday’s shoot later in the day.

    Thurs 24 June put loaded magazines in sun at 0900hrs temps got into low 120s f (My thermometer stops at 120 f) no direct sun today as sun was obscured by dust; removed them at 0055hrs (mid to low 90s f); magazines felt slightly warmer than outside temp. put in my room with AC (70-75f).

    Round 3: (Fri 25 Jun) 140 rounds: 80/magazine #1 60/magazine #2- semi and burst. No malfunctions

    Put magazines in sun at 0830hrs temps got into low to mid 120s f- no direct sun today as sun was partially obscured by dust.

    Today’s observations: I also fired with a Bakelite and a steel magazine today to see what my perceived difference was from Wednesdays test- The US palm did not feel quite as smooth as the other two, and I noticed a slight drag during burst fire- Now does that really make any difference? It is probably just different cartridge stripping resistance due to the slight gumminess of the plastic design vs. the steel feed lips on others or higher spring pressure of the US Palm- But like I said above in my first post above probably not enough of a difference to matter.

    Notes: Magazines reloaded today and allowed to sit until next round.

    Sat 26 June Magazines sat in pouch today inside a black tough box in direct sunlight with 125+f temps for 5+hrs. I also took loaded magazines on a 1.5hr chopper trip today in a CH47.

    Round 4: (Sun 27 Jun) 60 Rounds fired: 30/magazine- semi and burst. No malfunctions.

    Today’s observations: Nothing new, same as before.

    End of Test 1
    Notes: I have made it a point not to drop empty magazines as I sometimes do during training or doing magazine change drills-the kid gloves come off now.

    Edited for clarity
    Lord AK-47 likes this.
    "odio vitae semper dissolubilis"

    "Ludo mentis sciem"

    "Senecta aetas viresque, atque perfidium expugnat"

    "sic semper purgamentus Yugo kalashnikov! Tempus orbem ad excoquam eorum et dimittetur eis!"

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    Re: US Palm Magazine Test

    Test 2: Environmental Testing

    Magazines will not be cleaned until tests are completed or failures exceed 5/magazine in a round of testing.

    Phase 1 Dirt testing

    Round 1: (27 Jun) 57 rounds fired: 28rds magazine #1, 29rds magazine #2. 1 Malfunction, 1 Problem .

    Problem: Empty magazines were filled with about ¼ to 1/3 an inch with local “moon dust”, some dirt/sand and small pebbles; then were shaken out 3 times and until I heard nothing rattling around on the inside; perforations in the follower allow stuff to enter easily but also allow it to be shaken out easily-I guess this is the best option since disassembly of the magazine is not possible. I then loaded the magazines and immediately noticed that I could not get a full 30 rounds in the magazines, only 29.
    Perforations in follower:


    Malfunction noted: Primer failed to ignite, semi auto, magazine #1 @ round 17-not due to magazine.

    27 June Magazines left in pouch (feed lips down) overnight a small amount of sand and dust and a few small pebbles in bottom of pouch.
    29 June loaded magazines to check volume: Cartridges 23-27 loaded with a bit of difficulty and a definite "hitch" in the spring on both magazines and round 30 was able to be loaded now but required a lot of thumb pressure. Magazines will be left loaded until next test. Magazines were put outside under my” porch” (wooden pallet) at 2100hrs as there is a little dust in the air tonight.

    Round 2 30 Jun) 120 rounds 60/magazine. No malfunctions.

    Magazines retrieved at 0845; top few rounds had very little dust on them (not as much as I had hoped). Went to range and sprinkled 1 pinch of dust & sand in each magazine then shook magazines out vigorously for 10 seconds. Second and third rounds in magazine #1 had quite a bit of drag but the weapon still cycled-reloaded and shot again. Follower was still giving issues in approximately with the spring hitch the same places as before.

    Today’s observations: Spring hitch still there. Magazines left unloaded until next test.

    Round 3: (04Jul) 0 out of 60 rounds fired: Both magazines failed.
    Survivability: my favorite AK test, and the most difficult test: magazines will be filled with dust and sand from the range (as in test 1 above) then will only be hung upside down and allowed to drain once and then shaken out for 5 seconds. They will be loaded then dust and dirt/sand introduced until magazine is almost full. magazines will be buried then I will lightly kick the dirt off and in the process the magazine around lightly a few times retrieve and shake out the magazines for 10 seconds then toss (under-hand) each loaded magazine about 10 feet down range shake out for 3-4 seconds load and fire 10 rounds semi, approx 10 rounds burst and finally emptied on FA.
    1 July Magazines were shook out a few times and put in their pouch empty and feed lips down.
    4 July Fired a magazine (non US Palm to ensure function of the weapon) 5 minutes before test.

    Malfunctions noted: After attempting the above test both magazines failed:
    Magazine #1: Failed to load first attempt to load first round and pulled back and released charging handle 3 times then I whacked on the charging and pulled handle rearward and released with my palm for about 10 seconds: It still failed to load. I jettisoned it and went to magazine #2: At this point I considered it a complete magazine failure.
    Magazine #2 Failed to load the first round and would not go at all. After many attempts to get it to go as detailed above. I jettisoned the magazine and went back to magazine #1: At this point I considered it a complete magazine failure.
    After the failures I tried anyways to get it to go further to see what was necessary-I shook out magazine #1 vigourously for about 15 seconds. I re-inserted inserted magazine #1 again into my weapon and beat on and manipulated the charging handle for about 30 seconds or so and finally got it to chamber. I then resumed firing schedule as stated in the 1st paragraph above: The magazine fed through the first rounds sluggishly then was able to finish the magazine as written above with no failures.
    I then tried the same process for magazine #2 as had worked on magazine #1 But the round had seized in the feed lips and would not budge-I had to take the magazine to my shop and pry out the first 2 rounds with a screwdriver and then was able to unload it.

    Magazines #s 1 & 2 filled with dust:

    Magazines # 1 & 2 buried in dust:

    Magzines # 1 & 2 uncovered after light kicking around:

    Magazines # 1 & 2 after light under-hand toss; both magazines impacted on their sides not their feed lips- no rounds were expelled by either magazine from their impacts:

    Magazine #2 (complete failure to load):

    Magazine #2 on range after test:

    Magazine #2 in my shop before I put it in vice and had to use a screwdriver to download it.


    I fired another magazine (not US Palm) afterward to ensure that the weapon was not the cause. I fired 30 rounds in semi-auto, burst and full automatic. Result: No malfunctions.

    I cleaned, lubricated and inspected weapon afterwards: No deficiencies noted.

    10 JULY TESTING RESUMED (NEW POST AS OF 16 JULY)
    04-10 July, Magazines have been left unloaded and shaken out numerous times left in a pouch feed lips down and the pouch left hanging on my wall.
    10 July, Loaded magazines with fresh ammo; mag 1 was good until round 23 then required a lot of effort to load remaining cartridges especially 28-30 which required some use of force. Magazine 2 loaded fine until round 23-27 rounds 28 & 29 were easy then round 30 required some force to load. Hand cycled ammo out of magazines #1 & #2 to ensure function.
    July 11, Put magazines out at 0840 left outside until 2130 temperatures were low 130s f.
    July 12, Put magazines out at 0830-left out until 1930 temperature was in low 130s f, Put mags back outside at 2030 as dust storm was starting up.
    July 13, Left mags out overnight and all day during dust storm, brought magazines back inside at 1720 during lull in storm-high today was 124 f: placed mags back outside at 1830 and left overnight when duststorm resumed.
    July 14, Inspected mags at 0900 (very little dust had accumulated on the magazines), I left mags outside until 2000 then put inside until next morning.
    14 July, a little dust on the magazines.

    July 15, Put mags outside at 0945 left out until 1830 high today 128; very light layer of dust on outside of magazine from previous days of duststorms: I blew the dust off, shook out the magazines. Then I placed mags in tough box took box for a nice drag for about 400m down a poorly paved road then took mags on 1 hr C-130 ride.
    15 July, magazines after being brought inside in the early evening (The dust had not been blown off yet)


    Round 4: (16Jul) 0 out of 60 rounds fired: Both magazines failed.

    Malfunctions noted:Attempted to fire 60 rounds-only got 30 after the the same type things done when malfunctions happened in the last test. Took mags to range today they got schlepped around quite a bit yesterday I took them and shook them out this morning. Took them to range today with new AK to test as mine was not available today (Bulgarian milled receiver-checked out also before the tests to ensure functionality).

    VIDEO 1 (Click photo below)Magazines did not want to chamber rounds on first attempt.

    VIDEO 2 (Click photo below)So I took another magazine (steel) and made sure the weapon worked with 20 rounds before resuming test.

    VIDEO 3 (Click photo below)The US Palm magazines were shaken out afterwards again and I did not hear anything rattling around to inhibit function. So I tried again


    Personal observations: More or less a repeat of issues of the last test same failures on the same magazines. Magazines failed in the same way magazine #1 worked after some coaxing and magazine #2 failed; more or less the same results as last test. Less coaxing was required on magazine #1 the second time around to work this time though. Weapon was fired afterwards with same steel magazine for 90 rounds: No malfunctions or hiccups noted. Magazine #2 was downloaded on the range this time with a lot of effort but no tools were required this time. I shook magazines #1 and #2 out afterwards-little to no dust came out into my hand.

    Phase 1 completed.

    Phase 2 Fouling tests
    Preparation for phase 2 testing was done due to performance issues from last phase, here is the synopsis:
    July 20, Magazines were loaded and unloaded a few times to ensure functionality for next phase. Magazines had same difficulties as loading rounds in the mid 20s and the last few as noted during dust tests.
    July 21, Magazines were unloaded again and shaken out then reloaded just in case. Same issues with loading as on 20 July. Also Magazines were stored in a dust resistant airtight container until next test.
    July 26, Fully loaded magazines (They were left loaded from 21 July) were taken to the range and fired to ensure functionality 30 rounds semi-auto through each magazine and 20 more through each one (100 rounds total). No malfunctions or failures noted.

    Deliberate fouling test of magazines (03 August)

    July 26, 2300 dissolved some carbon in solvent and brushed a light layer on the inside of magazines #1 & #2 with it. I then placed magazines inside of 2 layers of plastic bags and left them outside overnight at 2330. This phase of testing is done to simulate carbon build up and accumulations of lubricant/gunk inside the magazine over long term usage of the magazines. I could not get carbon on the magazine springs though. Also I will keep sand and dust to a minimum and protect magazines from dust/sand storms for this phase of testing.
    July 27, 0850 Took magazines out of 1st bag but left second bags on and left outside all day. Temperatures were in the mid 120s f.
    July 28, 0845 removed magazine from bags and left outside until dust storm started at about 1400 I then put the magazines inside until dust storm subsided at 2000. I then left magazines outside until 2300 then brought the magazines back inside. Temperatures were in the mid 120s f.
    July 29. I sprayed 1 small squirt of WD-40 in each magazine and added a little carbon dust to the inside of the magazines to settle on the springs and also to simulate lubricant build up inside the magazine then left outside inside in a plastic bag until 2200. Temperature was in the low 120s f.
    July 30 Placed magazines outside at 0845hrs brought in at 1830 because it looked like it might be a bad night. I then put both magazines back out overnight as the night was clear. Temperatures were in the mid to high 120s f.
    July 31, Magazines left outside all day until 2300. Brought magazines in at 2320 and put back out at 2345 as the night was clear. Temperature was in the 130s f.
    Aug 01, Left magazines outside until 1240 then brought them inside to load then put them back outside at 1315. Noted spring hitch in same places as before. Magazines were left out overnight. Temperature was high 120s low 130s f.

    Round 1: (02 Aug) 135 rounds fired: 75 from magazine #1, 60 from magazine #2 mixed semi auto and burst. 1 Malfunction, 1 problem.

    Left magazines outside until tonight’s test at 2030hrs. Loaded and shot magazines as all tests before. Mixed semi-auto, burst, F/A. Temperature was in the high 120s f.

    Malfunction noted: Magazine #1 Double feed from magazine #1, 23rd shot semi-auto; due to magazine.

    Problem noted: Both magazines did not feed 1st round smoothly: Magazine 1 required two pulls of the charging handle to load 1st cartridge. For magazine #2 the bolt carrier pulled back on 1st attempt but hung up on feeding 1st cartridge and required a second of coaxing to feed.

    Personal observation: Cartridges did not feed smoothly and a very noticeable drag showed up while firing. It felt a few times as though the weapon had malfunctioned and did not feed properly while firing but the weapon did indeed cycle properly. Magazines still had spring hitch when loaded again.

    Aug 03 Pic of magazines after fouling test.


    Phase 2 completed

    All testing on hold until I return to theatre in 5-6 Months

    Phase 3 Mud test


    Edited to add phase 3.
    Lord AK-47 likes this.
    "odio vitae semper dissolubilis"

    "Ludo mentis sciem"

    "Senecta aetas viresque, atque perfidium expugnat"

    "sic semper purgamentus Yugo kalashnikov! Tempus orbem ad excoquam eorum et dimittetur eis!"

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    Re: US Palm Magazine Test

    Test 3: Long Term Tests
    This part will be run out over time and sometimes in between other tests. Also some minor drop testing will be done along the way-but this has been done ad nauseum so I will keep this to a minimum. Also any final tests will bet put in here.

    Phase 1 Medium Length Storage
    Aug 03 2010: Unloaded magazines were left out all day and brought in the evening. Temperatures were in the mid 120s f.
    Aug 04, Magazines were put outside at 0850 and left out all day and night. Temperaterures were in the low 130s f.
    Aug 05, Magazines were left out all day and night again. Temperatures were in the high 120s f.
    Aug 06, Magazines were left out all day and brought in at 1840 because dust storm was starting. Temperatures were in the high 120s-low 130s.
    Aug 07, Magazines were put outside at 0500 brought in at 1000 (as I had a plane to catch). Magazines were loaded and put in a climate controlled dust free place for 5-6 months until I return to begin next phases of testing.

    Personal Observation: Magazine #1 would only accept 28 cartridges initially; after a minute or two of coaxing and applying lots of force could I finally get 30 loaded. Both magazines still have hitch in the spring at the same place as before.

    Testing on hold until I return downrange to resume where I left off.
    "odio vitae semper dissolubilis"

    "Ludo mentis sciem"

    "Senecta aetas viresque, atque perfidium expugnat"

    "sic semper purgamentus Yugo kalashnikov! Tempus orbem ad excoquam eorum et dimittetur eis!"

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    Re: US Palm Magazine Test

    Misc etc.

    Magazine comparisons:



    Locking Tabs: Front & Rear


    (I guess my description in 1st post was a little hazy so here are some photos to better understand-hopefully this clears it up-thanks Q-gunner)

    16 JULY UPDATE
    Ammo used thus far: Chinese 80s production (2 different companies), Russian late 70s production, Bulgarian 60s production, Czech 2000s, and Wolf black box 123 grain ammo contract production thus far.

    Ammo total fired thus far: 992
    Magazine#1: 543
    Magazine#2: 499

    520 rounds fired for Test 1
    Magazine #1: 270
    Magazine #2: 250

    472 rounds fired for Test 2
    Magazine #1: 273
    Magazine #2: 199



    Edited to add ammo data
    Lord AK-47 likes this.
    "odio vitae semper dissolubilis"

    "Ludo mentis sciem"

    "Senecta aetas viresque, atque perfidium expugnat"

    "sic semper purgamentus Yugo kalashnikov! Tempus orbem ad excoquam eorum et dimittetur eis!"

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    Re: US Palm Magazine Test

    I must add- for those who are following this- the front lug is not steel lined, but a plastic design with stamped steel applied over it. Polymer, then a piece of sheet steel, then polymer. I hope this addition does not detract from the thread, if so, please have a mod delete it.



    Lord AK-47 likes this.
    I want to forget mistakes they've helped me make;
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    Re: US Palm Magazine Test (Pics added)

    I'm following this with great interest. Though these mags not "sitting well" with mag pouches made by just about everyone is a big issue for those of us already well stocked in the magazine department.
    "This you should grasp: All arts have length and measure. Whatever you undertake, use deliberation."

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    Re: US Palm Magazine Test (Pics added)

    Desticado, i am still not sold on the whole idea of not being able to take apart my mag to clean it....

    when we did Marco's course, at the end of the day my mags were filled with mud and grass and shit(yet still functioned ) - and he told me to make sure and take them apart and clean them. i did that same night and no issues next day...

    Once clay solidifies ...it could cause problems

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    Re: US Palm Magazine Test (Pics added)

    Quote Originally Posted by voron
    Desticado, i am still not sold on the whole idea of not being able to take apart my mag to clean it....

    when we did Marco's course, at the end of the day my mags were filled with mud and grass and shit(yet still functioned ) - and he told me to make sure and take them apart and clean them. i did that same night and no issues next day...

    Once clay solidifies ...it could cause problems

    Tell me about it, and that was a point I raised with Gabe when he first started advertising these. I was assured this wouldn't be an issue, which I think is total bollocks. Living in Georgia, with our world famous red clay, I've seen it get into the damndest places, including inside my magazine bodies.

    It just strikes me as asinine to make a magazine where you can't disassemble it. Springs wear and followers break, being able to replace these in the field with little fuss (or the added weight of another magazine) is pretty important to me.
    "This you should grasp: All arts have length and measure. Whatever you undertake, use deliberation."

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    Re: US Palm Magazine Test (Txt and photo for test #2 July 4

    Thank you for the very detailed and careful testing of the US Palm magazine! Very Interesting!

    I do not mean to poo-poo any new product; but for me, in spite the intense promotion of the US Palm magazines by Gabe Suarez, I just cannot justify the purchase on these US Palm magazines when all of my standard steel and Bulgarian Circle 10 magazines work just fine!

    I am going to pass on these US Palm magazines for now! :roll:

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    Re: US Palm Magazine Test (Txt and photo for test #2 July 4

    Quote Originally Posted by Gewehr 416
    Thank you for the very detailed and careful testing of the US Palm magazine! Very Interesting!

    I do not mean to poo-poo any new product; but for me, in spite the intense promotion of the US Palm magazines by Gabe Suarez, I just cannot justify the purchase on these US Palm magazines when all of my standard steel and Bulgarian Circle 10 magazines work just fine!

    I am going to pass on these US Palm magazines for now! :roll:
    +1
    10's are cheaper
    POW! You just got Tapco'd the fuck out.
    rsregulate aimpoint surefire No Mas

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    Re: US Palm Magazine Test (Txt and photo for test #2 July 4

    Thank you for these fair and honest tests!

    Did anybody else notice the mags being tested are the Generation 2 'improved' Palm Mags?

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    Re: US Palm Magazine Test (Updated again 04 July/2010 )

    Tagged for great test work!
    --> VEPR DOT ORG <--

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    Re: US Palm Magazine Test (Updated again 04 July/2010 )

    Thank you, very interesting.

    Doing the same test with some milsurp mags as a control would be enlightening.

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    Re: US Palm Magazine Test (Updated again 04 July/2010 )

    BTR: I have already done it numerous times with steel, once with Bakelite and Pro-Mag- I posted the results of first test on steel of this nature I did in 2002/2003 on AR-15.com years ago (been some years since I have been there)- it might still be there? I have done this test numerous times with steel magazines in Afghanistan, Germany and Ft. Bragg.

    Steel mags: never had more than 2 failures-and if memory serves correctly I don't think any steel ever had a failure.
    A Bakelite I tested once I think it had 2-3 failures.
    Pro-mag I was testing I think had 4 (?).

    When I started doing this test years ago I had initially figured that anything over a 50% failure to feed was a total failure, I then lowered the number to 30% (9 rounds) and finally to 5 rounds (approx 17.1%) no mag had ever failed up to this point.

    I anticipated some minor problems might be had with magazine #1 (US Palm)-but I did not expect the results I got: I had figured maybe 3-4 malfunctions. The results came as a unhappy surprise to me.



    Edited for clarity
    Lord AK-47 likes this.
    "odio vitae semper dissolubilis"

    "Ludo mentis sciem"

    "Senecta aetas viresque, atque perfidium expugnat"

    "sic semper purgamentus Yugo kalashnikov! Tempus orbem ad excoquam eorum et dimittetur eis!"

 

 
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