Valmet, Galil and AK similiarity/Why no Valmet clone?
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  1. #1
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    Valmet, Galil and AK similiarity/Why no Valmet clone?

    I'm not an expert on either the Galil or the Valmet, so please forgive me if I'm way off my rocker here, but I'm wondering if it'd be possible to make a 7.62x39 Valmet clone?

    Before you laugh, the only reason I ask is that I read that early Galils were originally built on receivers made by Valmet, and the Valmet influence in the overall design looks like it's there. Granted the Galil and the RK 62 are different calibers but I'm wondering if other than the differences in caliber and stock attachment systems on the receivers there is reasonable similiarity? Could not someone use a 5.56 Galil receiver as a guide to make a 7.62x39 Valmet receiver?


    As far as internal parts, could someone tell me which 7.62x39 mm Valmet parts are not interchangeable with regular AKs? Or, if most of them are not, which ones ARE interchangeable?

    The Valmet cheese grater handguard and gas tube would probably be the hardest thing to acquire (looking at the gas tube it looks like it would be different than an AK one). I think I've seen fixed wood butts for Valmets floating around before though...and then there's Ironwood maybe??

    Lastly, what about the front and rear sights on 5.56 Galils and 7.62x39 Valmets? Are they the same?

    I dunno...It just seems to me that if someone could make a US made Galil receiver a 7.62x39 Valmet receiver would be possible too...or not...

  2. #2
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    The closest thing to a Valmet clone previously on the market was the KTR-03V (vepr/rpk based) and KTR-03S (akm based) rifles by Krebs Custom. Both are out of production.

    I hear Ohio Rapid Fire might be making 7.62x39 receivers for galil parts kits. A good custom smith would be able to turn a galil kit + receiver + AKM & USA parts into a real work of art.

    Red Jacket might be doing some on Saiga receivers (AKM 1.0mm) right now if I'm not mistaken. I think the Valmet used 1.6mm (heavy) receivers in the '76 and '9X series, but I'm not entirely sure. To be honest, you probably wouldn't even notice any difference in shooting with receiver thickness and both would recoil less than an AK/AKM because of the better muzzle device.

    If I were you, I'd go with a Red Jacket 7.62x39mm Galil built on a Saiga receiver.

    There probably won't ever be any Valmet kits in the country, and even if there were, you wouldn't want them. They'd look rough and be worn out. The Finn's don't mess around, those things aren't parade rifles, they are for being rude, breaking things, and shooting Russians.
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  3. #3
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    You could make a 7.62x39 Valmet, there are guys making 7.62x39 galils, and as you said they are essentially the same gun.

    But it all comes down to parts...the reason you can get galils these days (and get them for such a reasonable price) is the complete parts kits are being imported. There simply aren't any parts for the Valmet.

    In fact, I remeber a fellow from Finland saying that the Finnish government was actually having to 'hangar queen' broken guns to strip them for replacement parts so they could keep the working guns going.

    Now, if someone were to make the valmet style parts here in the U.S., it would be pretty easy to build one up, or a near clone, on a galil reciever. but I bet those parts would be a niche market and pretty darn expensive.
    "I pledge allegiance to the ideal left us by men wiser than I, having the forethought to gift their children with the power of being free."

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    You won't be able to find a Valmet tube stock. The rest of the parts can be sourced, but it will be expensive.

    You will have to get a custom made barrel or mod an existing barrel for the handguard retainer threads. I don't know off hand if off the shelf AK barrels, or the upcoming x39 Galil barrels, are large enough in diameter to do this.

    Bottom line is that between finding parts and custom work, it will probably be just as expensive to clone a Valmet as it is to buy a real one, and the clone won't have half the build quality that the original does.



    My suggestion...buy a Galil kit and a 7.62x39 receiver and barrel when they come out. Get a 7.62x39 Galil built up and enjoy it.
    Keep that [s]crap[/s] [red]WOOD[/red] off my AK!

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    Im in contact with a guy over there now and the parts are big time high! Just the reciever cover is 75 euros or what ever they use. Mostly all they have is a few left overs I was trying to buy a reciever cover/sight and a front gas block/front sight off a m60 . There is no telling how much shipping would be. I can give you a link if you want it. Its not in english but there are pics.

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    I was talking to Will at Red Jacket firearms via email, apparently you can't use an AKM barrel because of diameter issues (the AKM barrel doesn't have enough diameter at the traditional gas block location).

    I hope someone has 7.62x39 chrome Galil barrels in the works.
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    ORF should have all parts needed for a 7.62 x 39 and 5.45 x 39 Galils within a month or two. (Receiver, Bolt, Barrel, Parts Kit)


    This in addition to their 5.56 and .308 offerings.


    Per Todd @ ORF, the only thing holding up the receivers is the delivery of the US barrels. Todd stated that he wanted to have barrels in house before making/completing receivers in order to make sure that they time correctly.
    "Go sell crazy somewhere else... we're all stocked up here."

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    I'm in the process of building a 7.62x39 "Super Galil" right now. I have a brand new Sako M95 top cover with rear sight for sale, cost me $150.00 plus shipping, anything close to that, and you can have it. Yes, it does fit the Galil. I decided to stick with the Galil top cover.

    I wanted a chromelined barrel for this project and found an AK "pinned-in" barrel, that was machined and threaded for the Galil receiver, and the the gas block area built up with a sleeve. I got it from Elite Firearms in Texas. I bought, and plan to install Sako M95 handguards, as mentioned in a previous thread, this will require a sleeve about midway up the barrel, to be threaded to match up with the handguard retainer. I finally found someone who will do this, so my kit will be off to him in the next few days.

    A 7.62x39 conversion can be done using a Galil 223 receiver, you don't need a special 7.62x39 receiver, the barrel is the only special part needed. A 7.62x39 bolt will fit right in a Galil bolt carrier, the only mod needed (so far) is to cut the 223 ejector back to 7.62x39 specs, so the bolt will pass by it/though it.

    I plan on topping this off wth a Smith Enterprises (SEI) M14 Vortex flash supressor. Hopefully I'll end up with a better weapon than the 223 Galil, and the 7.62x39 Valmet M62. I've owned a M62, years ago, and still own an IMI Galil ARM. I liked them both, but through years of, hunting and field experience, have no real use for the 223 round. I think the AK round is adequete for CQC but the ak leaves MUCH to be desired as a battle weapon. Hopefully my Super Galil resolve all these issues by being the ultimate Ak weapon system.
    Life isn't fair, it's just interesting!

    Tom Kelly
    Buckeye, AZ

  10. #9
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    Based on my experiences with the Krebs KTR rifles, once you get aperture (peep) sights and improved furniture on an AK, you've pretty much fixed 80-90% of the problems/gripes with the system.

    As one person commented in a class that Templar ran in, using a KTR was in his opinion... "cheating".
    "Life is short, but the years are long." - Robert A. Heinlein

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  11. #10
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    Va_dinger

    That is the Sako M95, those are the handguards I'm using on my Super Galil project. Some parts are available from Finland, some are not. They are all expensive. Valmet.org is a good source of information, and pictures of the M95. There are some pictures of a clone M95 a gentelman had made up utilizing a Valmet M62 as his starting point, it's absolutely beautiful!

    If you're interested I have a brand new M95 top cover with the ear aperature sight, no nite sights. I will sell it for cheaper than what you can get one from Finland for. I've taken it out of the bag to see if it would fit my Galil receiver, it's a perect fit, by the way, and it was back in the bag and in my safe. E-me at tjk2356#webtv.net if interested.
    Life isn't fair, it's just interesting!

    Tom Kelly
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  12. #11
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    7.62 X 39 Galils

    Just a quick note to mention that Dave Michener at Elite Firearms is making a really excellent Galil in 7.62 X 39. He is using an FAL gas block that reduces the recoil to virtually nada! The action is smooth as silk, the trigger is crisp, and the finish is excellent.

    It is far and away the best 7.62 I've ever shot--what a hoot. So far I've been able to stay in a 5-in group at 100yds, but that is not the rifle's problem: I'm just not a very good shot.

    E. Blake

  13. #12
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    valmet clone

    I am about to start work on my first attempt at a Valmet clone. Unfortunately, it is going to look like something that was built from armorer's leftovers. With the donor rifle I'll be using and the parts I'm able to get, it will look like a model 61 that has the wrong handguard on it (because a model 76 HG is all I could find).

    It will have a milled receiver that is generally the same profile as the Galil, but will have the characteristic Valmet dust cover, wooden buttstock, muzzle brake, and pistol grip.

    It will be my own little "monster" though, and I'm sure I will love it.

    Pix when it's done.

    E.

  14. #13
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    update

    Just to update my last transmission: it won't look wrong after all. I didn't realize that there were M-76s in 7.62x39 on milled receivers as well as stamped ones.

    Mine will look like the former.

    Work is currently being done on the donor rifle to finalize the profile, and I am waiting on a couple of parts. Once I've got everything, I will post a "pre-assembly" picture of all pieces & parts.

    E.

  15. #14
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    I've got SAKO M92 handguards and mounting hardware if someone wants them.

  16. #15
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    PM sent on the M92 handguards.

 

 

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