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  1. #16
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    [QUOTE=43m1garand;2917571]Just like Colt handguns. High priced and there are others out there that are just as good or better for less money. People buy Colt's are just paying for the pony. People buy something because of a name. People also buy something just because it is used by the military or LE. That does not make it the best. Military and LE have budgets, bureaucracy, and politics to deal with when selecting equipment. Colt probably quit making ARs to drive their value up and will start making them again just like they do with their handguns. Colt has the retro XM117E2 for $2599 while Brownells has the same rifle for $999.99 sale price and was $1397.99 regular price. Troy made one too and it was less than the Colt. So spend twice as much for the Colt over the Brownells just for the pony name. I think some people get too sentimental about certain brands and buy them for that reason.

    Like it or not, Colt has been the "Standard" since they got the spec's right first and then won the contract.
    That's pretty much the end of that story.
    There may be a few people getting it right, a few getting close, but many, many AR manufacturers cut what they consider insignificant corners that later come back to bite the buyer square in the wallet.
    Colt prices have been as low as $995.00 recently, that's a bargain. You've seen what shoddy techniques have done to AK's made in America, what makes you think that is any different than with AR's?
    Coming back and proclaiming your $650.00 S&W or $550.00 kit build "Just as good as a Colt" is simply wrong, you're either fooling yourself or you lack the knowledge to talk about the subject intelligently from a lack of experience.
    I don't mean to offend and I wont discuss it any further, but there it is.
    OLDBEAR and CGSteve like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Averageman View Post
    proclaiming your $650.00 S&W or $550.00 kit build "Just as good as a Colt" is simply wrong, you're either fooling yourself or you lack the knowledge to talk about the subject intelligently from a lack of experience.
    I don't mean to offend and I wont discuss it any further, but there it is.
    Try under 500 for S&W

    Will a Colt last longer than a S&W under certain conditions? Yes.

    Do I own multiple Colt and S&W? Yes.

    Would a S&W be my go to over a Colt? No.

    Does a S&W feed without failure and shoot as good as the man pulling the trigger? Yes.

    Was I ever comparing the two? No.

    Would I buy 2 S&W's over 1 Colt? Absolutely. I could replace the barrels and BCG's and still be at the price point of a really solid tricked out Colt, but with two very usable rifles that would perform just the same as the one.

    My experience with Colt was introduced to me through the military. My military experience with Colt I'm certain is far less than plenty. None the less it has been a Colt that was issued to me, a Colt that I trained on, and a Colt I depended on overseas. There is no argument from me that the Colt is milspec and the S&W is not, or that the S&W is a budget rifle and the Colt is not. I never compared the two in that regard.

    What I argue, is that Colt is behind the times in it's current available configurations, that Colt's demise is at the hands of itself through failed marketing and manufacturing practice, and that for the money or a little bit more, one may purchase an even better rifle. You guys get a little criticism of your fucking precious and wig the hell out.

    To hold on to a standard of the past is ignorant. The pissing match of who has shot more rounds, or who owns more guns is completely fucking irrelevant. At one point in time the Nintendo Entertainment System was a standard in home video gaming, and an original sealed in the box NES is worth than a Xbox One, does that mean you should you purchase an NES over a Xbox One?

    Buy your grandson or son an NES instead and see what happens. So much for standards.
    Last edited by Pookie; 09-17-2019 at 11:26 AM.
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  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    Try under 500 for S&W

    Will a Colt last longer than a S&W under certain conditions? Yes.

    Do I own multiple Colt and S&W? Yes.

    Would a S&W be my go to over a Colt? No.

    Does a S&W feed without failure and shoot as good as the man pulling the trigger? Yes.

    Was I ever comparing the two? No.

    Would I buy 2 S&W's over 1 Colt? Absolutely. I could replace the barrels and BCG's and still be at the price point of a really solid tricked out Colt, but with two very usable rifles that would perform just the same as the one.

    My experience with Colt was introduced to me through the military. My military experience with Colt I'm certain is far less than plenty. None the less it has been a Colt that was issued to me, a Colt that I trained on, and a Colt I depended on overseas. There is no argument from me that the Colt is milspec and the S&W is not, or that the S&W is a budget rifle and the Colt is not. I never compared the two in that regard.

    What I argue, is that Colt is behind the times in it's current available configurations, that Colt's demise is at the hands of itself through failed marketing and manufacturing practice, and that for the money or a little bit more, one may purchase an even better rifle. You guys get a little criticism of your fucking precious and wig the hell out.

    To hold on to a standard of the past is ignorant. The pissing match of who has shot more rounds, or who owns more guns is completely fucking irrelevant. At one point in time the Nintendo Entertainment System was a standard in home video gaming, and an original sealed in the box NES is worth than a Xbox One, does that mean you should you purchase an NES over a Xbox One?

    Buy your grandson or son an NES instead and see what happens. So much for standards.
    Well by saying you would pick up a S&W to defend your life with, I simply feel the rest of your argument is a moot point.
    Why purchase a firearm that you don't trust enough to save your life. irregardless of the price point or potential savings?

    Colts biggest mistake was not picking up and moving when the getting was good. They've been bled to death by poor business practices, not shoddy or over priced AR's. Then of course instead of innovation, they decided to follow the marketing failures of their lesser competitors.
    That they cannot build to the same quality and innovation of their firearms of the 60's, 70's and 80's, I agree is a failure of business practices.

    All of that however has little to do with Colt being the standard, and there must always be a standard. Like it or not a $500.00 S&W does not meet the standard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    I couldn't tell you how many companies produce nice quality AR15's but it's definitely a lot. I believe Colt AR's would sell if they actually gave the consumer a reason to buy, but they don't. Colt sells basic bitch AR15's at a premium price in a world where nobody wants a basic bitch AR15. Besides that, over the years the biggest reason to buy a Colt was mostly because it was the standard military issued rifle for so long, but even that is not what it once was. Colt is behind the times and their civilian market slump has been brought on by them and them only.

    Actually they're still standard military issued because they have to follow the parameters set by the military, know as the TDP. Colt owns the rights and anyone supplying the military with rifles (FN) pays royalties. On top of that they have to follow that same package and make an identical rifle, right down to the finish, raw materials, testing specs....etc. in other words....same identical rifle. So the standard is still the same as it was when the TDP came out.

    For that reason they are the cheapest in known quality. Everything else becomes either hobby grade or more expensive.

    Keeping it basic is logically the best idea. Unfortunately gun owners don't buy on logic. I can buy a decked out AR but do I really need all the extras? Am I going to use that $300 stock or the $200 rail? I don't know. I'd rather buy basic and find out what I need as I go. Which is exactly what I did. Not only bought basic but used as well. Still have the original handguards too. Have my sling attached to the front sight and the red dot is on the receiver rail. After taking several classes with it the setup works and I don't need to spend money on a rail I don't use (picatinny, Mlock, KeyMod).

    Best way to get the most out of your rifle and money is to buy basic, buy mags, ammo and training. Then go from there. Add/remove as needed.
    Last edited by Arik; 09-17-2019 at 01:20 PM.
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  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by 43m1garand View Post
    Just like Colt handguns. High priced and there are others out there that are just as good or better for less money. People buy Colt's are just paying for the pony. People buy something because of a name. People also buy something just because it is used by the military or LE. That does not make it the best. Military and LE have budgets, bureaucracy, and politics to deal with when selecting equipment. Colt probably quit making ARs to drive their value up and will start making them again just like they do with their handguns. Colt has the retro XM117E2 for $2599 while Brownells has the same rifle for $999.99 sale price and was $1397.99 regular price. Troy made one too and it was less than the Colt. So spend twice as much for the Colt over the Brownells just for the pony name. I think some people get too sentimental about certain brands and buy them for that reason.

    https://www.colt.com/detail-page/xm1...556-16-20rd-fs

    https://www.brownells.com/firearms/r...rod113315.aspx
    They're not that expensive compared to what equal or better. Sionics, LWRC, Knights, BCM, HK.....all more expensive, especially the HK. All are at least equal.

    None of my Colts were that expensive. New I've seen them around $850. Bought mine police surplus $600 range.

    Brownells isn't the same rifle it just has the same look. Just like a Philippino 1911 is not the same as a Wilson Combat although both are 1911s. I don't know what the difference is between the Colt and Brownells. Maybe the Colt price is full MSRP, which is always higher than store prices. Brownells is probably outsourcing production which could mean different manufacturing process in the same way that I.O Inc AKs have a different manufacturing process than that of Arsenal in Bulgaria.
    Last edited by Arik; 09-17-2019 at 01:19 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arik View Post
    Actually they're still standard military issued because they have to follow the parameters set by the military, know as the TDP. Colt owns the rights and anything supplying the military with rifles (FN) pays royalties. On top of that they have to follow that same package and make an identical rifle, right down to the finish, raw materials, testing specs....etc. in other words....same identical rifle. So the standard is still the same as it was when the TDP came out.

    For that reason they are the cheapest in known quality. Everything else becomes either hobby grade or more expensive.

    Keeping it basic is logically the best idea. Unfortunately gun owners don't buy on logic. I can buy a decked out AR but do I really need all the extras? Am I going to use that $300 stock or the $200 rail? I don't know. I'd rather buy basic and find out what I need as I go. Which is exactly what I did. Not only bought basic but used as well. Still have the original handguards too. Have my sling attached to the front sight and the red dot is on the receiver rail. After taking several classes with it the setup works and I don't need to spend money on a rail I don't use (picatinny, Mlock, KeyMod).

    Best way to get the most out of your rifle and money is to buy basic, buy mags, ammo and training. Then go from there. Add/remove as needed.
    At one time Colt was pretty much the sole supplier of M-16/M-4s for the military. We all know who is issued what, and which branches get what, but things are changing and have been. The gov moves at a snail's pace, again, we all know this.The the gov isn't going to toss out perfectly good rifles, and of course Colts won't ever be stopped all together from making their way to our forces hands, but never say never because crazier things have happened. I would assume based on whats currently issued, and the war stock, that Colt will always remain a top contender and relevant, or at least for a very long time.

    I'm in the military dude I know we have Colt's, I get it, but if rifles are being replaced by other brands at levels lower then specwar then clearly... "things arent what they once were".

    I understand the functionality of a rifle and that you don't need rails and what not, but that's what the vast majority of consumers want. Colt's answer to this was the trooper with a free float handguard shorter than what is pppular, the magpul edition, and what lightweight thing that is essentially a S&W, that wasn't even made by Colt. Bro, they have fucked up on their own.
    Last edited by Pookie; 09-17-2019 at 01:39 PM.

  9. #23
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    Thank you AZAK for jumping in this thread so quickly. Im opening this thread back up after cleaning it up. I liked where the discussion was going before it was derailed and think that in todays times, of many firearm options, the discussion of if colt is still worth the extra money is a good one.

    Let keep it clean this time.
    Last edited by 22many; 09-17-2019 at 06:17 PM.

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    Thanks to those who updated that this is just a temporary shutdown to fill other contracts. Very good to hear!

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    never been much of an AR guy period, but Ive owned other colt produc tsand loved them......I would definitely like to see colt start producing the python again.


    Ive only owned on AR and that was a river rock arms and it was given to me by a relative....put maybe 400 rounds with it and did some tinkering before I got rid of it

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    LEO friend who is an armorer, told me that Colt is only halting civilian sales temporarily to fulfill some military contracts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    At one time Colt was pretty much the sole supplier of M-16/M-4s for the military. We all know who is issued what, and which branches get what, but things are changing and have been. The gov moves at a snail's pace, again, we all know this.The the gov isn't going to toss out perfectly good rifles, and of course Colts won't ever be stopped all together from making their way to our forces hands, but never say never because crazier things have happened. I would assume based on whats currently issued, and the war stock, that Colt will always remain a top contender and relevant, or at least for a very long time.

    I'm in the military dude I know we have Colt's, I get it, but if rifles are being replaced by other brands at levels lower then specwar then clearly... "things arent what they once were".

    I understand the functionality of a rifle and that you don't need rails and what not, but that's what the vast majority of consumers want. Colt's answer to this was the trooper with a free float handguard shorter than what is pppular, the magpul edition, and what lightweight thing that is essentially a S&W, that wasn't even made by Colt. Bro, they have fucked up on their own.
    What brands are they being replaced by?

    I mean on a large scale

    Quote Originally Posted by 22many View Post
    Thank you AZAK for jumping in this thread so quickly. Im opening this thread back up after cleaning it up. I liked where the discussion was going before it was derailed and think that in todays times, of many fireatms options, if colt is still worth the extra money.

    Let keep it clean this time.
    Is it worth the money? Depends on what you want/expect.

    If you're buying based on price point then yes there are better options. If you're looking for proven reliability then Colt is the cheapest entry level.

    There are others who are close but typically Colt (and when I say Colt I mean 6920. There are others but for this purpose...6920) is just under a grand and sometimes can be found on sale for around $800. This gives you a solid starting point in a proven name. If you wish to add upgrades you can.

    I'm not sure what it could be compared to in the AK world..... probably a WASR. Canted sights aside it's a well built reliable and proven rifle made to military specifications that can be upgraded later if so desired. Or if you're looking to get into good quality 1911s but don't want to spend several grand SA is a good start. Their loaded and TRP line are well made, proven and still affordable enough. They come with most things a beginner would need and can be upgraded as needed.

    These aren't one to one comparisons but hopefully it makes sense

  14. #28
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    I've only had this thing for a few months, but instantly became one of my favorite all-time firearms that I've owned after the first range trip. I'm definitely gonna try to grab an AR-15A4 soon to go with it.

    IMG_2073.jpgIMG_2025.jpg

    As for handguns, my Colt New Agent is my primary carry gun in the summer. I can't even begin to guess the amount of rounds that have been through this gun, with absolutely no failures. I cannot say that about any of the other carry 1911's myself or my friends have owned.

    IMG_6149.jpg
    22many and Thrasher like this.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote"

    -Benjamin Franklin



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    Buying an AR15 there are many choices today.

    The market , and availability and price competition has opened up in recent years.

    This competition has caused problems for Colt. They are only one among many manufacturers of the AR pattern rifle.

    As far as choosing a firearm based on ones life depending on it.

    Less than 1% of firearms in the USA will ever be used in life or death scenarios. Unless some historically unlikely event occurs.

    Kinda like asking if you trust your life to the vehicle you own.
    If that were the case., you would purchase the safest, proven vehicle.
    This is seldom the case.

    Buy what you like.
    Choose the quality or price point you prefer.
    Time will tell whether the purchase met your needs or expectations.

    Ford vs Chevy or AK vs AR is a lot of the banter vs actual functionality of the firearm.
    Fiorentino and 43m1garand like this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiorentino View Post
    I've only had this thing for a few months, but instantly became one of my favorite all-time firearms that I've owned after the first range trip. I'm definitely gonna try to grab an AR-15A4 soon to go with it.

    IMG_2073.jpgIMG_2025.jpg

    As for handguns, my Colt New Agent is my primary carry gun in the summer. I can't even begin to guess the amount of rounds that have been through this gun, with absolutely no failures. I cannot say that about any of the other carry 1911's myself or my friends have owned.

    IMG_6149.jpg
    Dam dude!!! Nice lineup! Im jelly!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Arik View Post
    Is it worth the money? Depends on what you want/expect.
    Thats the question. Years ago there wasnt many options for quality. Keeping in mind that im not talking about ar15s but firearms in general. Colt had questionable quality for sometime but it seems that they worked that out. However other than their name and history, imo your paying for the name.

    Although, i dont know of one person that wouldn’t want a colt in their collection.
    Fiorentino likes this.

 

 
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