MarColMar and HMG Cetme L a Detailed Comparison - Page 3
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Thread: MarColMar and HMG Cetme L a Detailed Comparison

  1. #31
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    Thank you!! That's one of the kindest things I've heard in a long time! In real life, I have a boring government job. I'd love to make a living at this stuff but I fear I'm too dumb to figure a way to make money at it. BUT......I'm for hire!!
    Last edited by Wilhelm; 03-27-2019 at 07:35 PM.
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  2. #32
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    I've wanted to update this thread for a while now but I've been kinda' busy. And because I've not been at it for a bit, a lot of information has piled up so this is going to take a few posts. This first post is gonna' be a lot of text. Sorry about that but you can't tell a story without words.
    I'll start just a bit before I left off. It turns out that Dave Bane from MarColMar has been reading my posts about the rifle so he contacted me (prior to the zeroing problem) and offered me the opportunity to tour the factory, look through parts for interesting variations and just generally hang out to get a feel for what MarColMar is as a company. Dave even offered to pick me up at the airport. Would you pass up an opportunity to hang out with a manufacturer for a day and play with guns? Neither would I so I eagerly accepted. I asked if I could bring my rifles along and he said "Bring whatever you want. Frank (one of the designers who it turns out looks an awful lot like Hooper from "Jaws") likes Swiss stuff so we'll have some of that here for you to check out too." SO, rather than mess around with airlines, boxing up rifles and all that jazz, I decided to just drive out rather than fly. It's only about seven hours from my place and my Honda hasn't been on a road trip for a while.


    Then, just a few days before I was to head out to Indiana, I took my rifle out for its first range trip and discovered the zeroing problem. I contacted MCM and they couldn't have been more pleasant. "Make sure you bring it along and we'll do whatever it takes to make it right." Good customer service is key to a happy customer. So, I packed up the ol' Hondoonie on a Wednesday morning and headed out six hours to Springfield Ohio to spend the night with a lifelong friend before getting up bright and early Thursday morning for the last hour to MCM.


    I had no trouble finding the place and the first person I ran into was Jeff, who through the course of the day I discovered is wicked smart (and good looking too!). I introduced myself and asked for Dave. Jeff said he wasn't there and I grinned. Jeff grinned back and motioned me in so I followed along. I knew right away this was going to be fun! On the way through the front office, I met Charlie, the resident Golden Retriever. His main job seems to be saying "hello" with a big wagging tail and instant love. I've never met a dog I didn't like!! Upon entering the factory floor, I was introduced to Dave and Frank (Hooper drives the boat chief). As Dave put his hand out for a shake, I noticed he had working man's hands. He was also wearing a t-shirt with stains and jeans. I liked him immediately. After asking me how the trip was and exchanging niceties, we headed back through the factory to the final assembly and storage room for a very nicely informal meet and greet. As Frank pulled out a stool for me to have a seat on, I looked around the room and admired all the Cetme's sitting on racks. It was part of an order they were getting ready for shipment to a distributor:










    We sat for a bit, Dave, Frank and me and just talked; about MarColMar, the Cetme, firearms in general, manufacturing, politics, things unrelated to any of those things and just stuff in general. I think they were feeling me out to make sure I wasn't a nut or a weirdo and I guess I passed the test (HA!! I fooled them!!) because in no time, I felt like I was among friends. When we came around to the topic of my rifle Dave said, "pick any rifle off the rack you want; it's yours." Now THAT'S customer service!! I was tempted as I saw number 112 sitting there but I didn't feel that would be right and my mother raised me better than that. So I declined and asked Dave to try to repair my rifle first. He couldn't sell it as new anymore and I couldn't in good conscience ask for a brand new rifle if mine could be reasonably repaired. He said, "I know you wanted a low serial number so I'll take 112 out of the shipment and set it aside for now. If I can't repair yours, I'll sent you that one." Fair enough. I was also told that, after they read about my problem, they went back and rechecked every rifle they had in stock. Although none were off nearly as much as mine was, they did find a couple that were off more than they would have liked. They tracked the problem down to a misaligned jig and had since made adjustments to correct the problem. Next, we went for a tour of the factory.


    As we walked around, Jeff met back up with us and walked me through the process of manufacturing various things step by step. I was welcome to take pictures of some things and I was asked not to take pictures of others. Just to be safe, I took pictures of nothing. Here's why. It was obvious within seconds that MarColMar isn't just putting parts kits back together with a new receiver and barrel. Rather, they are MANUFACTURING an essentially new rifle using highly automated (and outrageously expensive) machines and top Quality materials. The automated machine used to produce the trigger boxes looks like something straight out of NASA and it's as clean as a contraption they would use too! The number of jigs that must be used simply to weld the receiver was amazing and each one had to be designed and built from the ground up. Because of the massive amount of time, energy and money invested, I wouldn't be right or fair to MCM for me to post pictures of all that. It's far, far easier to copy someone else than it is to use your own brain to figure out a problem and I have no interest in helping someone else steal what amounts to industrial secrets from MCM. Go figure it out yourself! I'm not exaggerating when I tell you, this ain't as simple as you think it is. Anyone who has any experience at all in the manufacturing industry knows what I'm talking about. Cost took a back seat to Quality and the amount of engineering that was put into the project must have been considerable to say the least. Dave ran through some of the costs involved. All were high but the one that stuck with me the most was the cost of the dies to make the rear sling swivel. I had wondered if they used originals and simply refinished them but I was told (and later saw first hand) that the originals were in too poor a condition to suit MCM so they decided to reproduce them. When MCM met with the die maker, they were advised that they could be made much cheaper if they were slightly simplified.
    "Will they look just like the originals?"

    "Not exactly but that is actually a pretty complex part to stamp out the way it is. If we make some subtle changes, it'll really save you some money."

    "Nope. We want it to look as original as possible. What'll that cost for dies?"

    $75,000. SOLD!!

    An original picked at random(there are variations):




    A MarColMar reproduction:

    Think of that $75,000 price tag for such a seemingly simple part the next time you admire your Cetme. If MarColMar sells 10,000 rifles, just the cost of the dies to make this one part accounts for $7.50 per rifle and that's considering neither the steel the swivel is made from nor the finish applied. An entire M1 Carbine cost the US Govt. about 45 bucks back in WWII. I often hear folks balking at the cost of new firearms these days. Quality ain't cheap folks, especially when you are trying to recreate something that was made decades ago with different technology. I was told the cost of the receiver dies but I didn't retain it. It was sky high though. I can tell you that.


    It was much the same with the furniture. A local casket manufacturer was contracted to provide all of the polymer bits. They explained to MarColMar that technology had changed considerably since the original furniture was made and that the molds used to make them back then were very complicated and expensive by todays standards. If they would just simplify the part a bit, e.g. remove the cooling cavities on the bottom of the handguard, the price to produce would drop considerably. Nope...….it's got to be as close to original as possible save for making it out of better polymer.
    The examples above illustrated two things about MCM that really impressed me and I discussed that with Dave, Frank and Jeff. First, they are extremely detail oriented. They want to produce a rife that looks as close to original as possible yet is superior to an original both in materials and Quality of build. They also re-engineered some aspects of the design to make it more reliable than an original; little things you'll never even notice like the spring K factors (look up Hooke's Law) and magazine to trunnion feed geometry. The extractor springs are made from (IIRC, I'm no engineer) chrome silicon and the aluminum used for the trigger boxes is of a particular alloy that is superior to an original. The barrels are cold hammer forged and the Ceracote finish used is far better than the original paint.
    Second, they are committed to making as many parts as possible in the US and as locally as they can. In fact, ALL new made parts on the rifle, the manual and all of the packaging are made in the United States with most of them being sourced in Indiana. The only exception is the gun lock that ships with each rifle. That part was literally 10x as expensive if sourced in the US. MCM figured that, since most people circular file that thing anyways, save a bit of dough on that one. I'd have made the same decision as I can honestly say I've never used one in almost forty years. Do you?


    Another thing I asked about was the finish on the non painted parts, specifically, how did they acquire bolts and bolt carrier that looked as new. I was told that not one part on the rifle has the original finish. Every single original part is stripped to bare metal, inspected and refinished. Where possible and prudent, the original finish is recreated as closely as possible.


    I mentioned earlier about the new springs being tuned to the design. This was done using a special high speed camera and a modified receiver. I took a few pictures of the test receiver:







    The lines you see on the receiver and bolt carrier are indexing marks. The camera takes thousands of pictures per second and they can figure out the proper spring settings by knowing where the action is in the cycle compared to time elapsed.




    This window allows them to see how far the bolt carrier has moved to the rear at the end of its stroke. Too far to the rear and you are beating the rifle to pieces because the springs are too soft. Too far forward and the springs are too stiff which will create feeding problems. It's gotta be juuuust right! Judging from my experience, this was money and research very well spent.



    I've got a lot more to post but it's late and I gotta' pay the bills tomorrow. I'll be back with some more.
    Last edited by Wilhelm; 04-07-2019 at 09:07 PM.
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  3. #33
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    Picking up where we left off......

    One of the rifles I spotted sitting on a rack was a short barreled version with a collapsible stock, known as the CETME LC. It's still in semi-prototype stage as they are still optimizing some of the details but I was told that it will be for sale in the near future. Unfortunately, not a whole bunch of these rifles were produced to begin with and even fewer have survived. Out of around 10,000 kits acquired by MarColMar only about 645 of them were this version so they will be offering this version on a limited basis. To quote Dave from this past December,
    "...…..to be fair to our customers and those that have been on board for the last two years... we are going to supply to each buyer of the CETME L a card to register their desire to buy an LC. We will then draw in order and contact the customers. Those that want them will have the opportunity to buy. If we get to the end of the list and there are some left, we will leave them available to the open market.

    On the LVs (that's the version wit a scope mount in place of the normal rear sight), we are working with the awesome guys at APEX to try to find original ENOSA scopes for the guns, if that does not work, we will be working with a couple scope manufacturers at SHOT to see if we can't get quality copies made to do this rifle justice. We will then do the same thing with an "opportunity lottery" to sell them.

    I know its not a popular course of action with some... and it may even make some mad... but I believe it is certainly fairer than just dropping them on the website and letting it be first come first served... and frankly if we work through the list and there are some still available, they will STILL be available for sale to those that just want the LC or V.

    Finally we will build the LC in either the 16" or the SBR type, that will be up to the buyer. We will offer it in SBR form (Efiled) or will offer it with a pinned extended flash hider that you can remove after your Form 1, AND you get to keep your CETME while you wait."

    Like a moron, I didn't take any pictures of the assembled rifle but I did get some pictures showing it disassembled and the internal differences between the LC and the standard L. I also got some detail photos of the stock. Let's check it out!



    In the photo above, I have placed a normal L model recoil assembly, bolt group and cocking handle support in front and the same components from an LC behind. It should quickly be obvious that it's not a simple as switching out the stock between the two rifles. The use the same receiver and trigger group but the rest of the guts are different. On a standard rifle, the recoil assembly is housed in the stock but that's not possible on the LC so the bolt carrier was modified to house it. This necessitated a longer nose at the front of the carrier similar to that found on an HK. Consequently, the cocking handle support had to be shortened. Also notice that while the standard rifle has the buffer built into the recoil assembly, there is no such buffer on the LC recoil assembly. Instead, it's built into the stock, again, just like an HK.


    Here's an above shot better illustrating the length difference between the two bolt groups:



    And a 3/4 rear view of the LC bolt showing the cavity for the recoil assembly:



    The stock:


    The butt pad appears to be identical to the L model. Notice the button on top of the back plate. Depressing that allows you to extend and retract the stock. There are only two positions, open and closed. Also note the sling swivel welded on top of the stock fork. We can also see a little pin sticking out the rear of the back plate. Just as on an HK, this is sprung to pop the stock open just a bit when you press the release button (lever on an HK). I like the mechanics of this stock better than an HK but the arms are relatively thin stamped steel so it feels flimsy in comparison. It seems to work fine though. I just wouldn't use it as a hammer.

    Here's a closeup of the opening assist pin at the rear of the back plate:

    Nice welding! You can see that the release button is serrated as opposed to checkered. Not that it matters but......details!


    A view into the front of the backplate:

    Top is to the left of the photo. The upper hole is where the recoil assembly nests and the tube looking thingee in the center of the back plate is the buffer rod which is just like...….you guessed it......an HK.


    While I was taking pictures, Frank was puzzling over my rifle trying to figure out whether or not he could get it fixed that day so that I could take it home with me rather than having it shipped back. He had determined that the front sight base was slightly canted on the barrel and had made some adjustments. He had a laser bore-sight star trek thing sticking out the muzzle and asked me to take a look. It still looked like it was a bit left but the only way to be sure was to test it. At this point, is was about lunch time and the gang offered to take me out to lunch and then head to the range which was at Dave's house. Let me tell you right now. I will NEVER, EVER turn down a chance to have lunch and go shooting with firearms manufacturer dudes....never....ever. So, we grabbed my rifle, an original CETME L and a post sample made by MCM and headed out.

    Lunch was at Little Sheba's in Richmond Indiana and oh my was the food ever good!! If you're ever passing through Richmond, Little Sheba's is home cooked goodness and the staff is mid west friendly!! Check em' out:
    Little Shebas
    I highly recommend the BLT and their potato salad!! And the best part of lunch was Dave saying grace before we ate. God bless the US of A!!


    After lunch, we headed to Dave's for testing but as we pulled into the driveway, he stopped at a nice sized barn. He said he knew I liked Historical military firearms and he had a few interesting ones I might like.
    Do you remember when you were a little kid and it was Christmas morning? I do. I especially remember the Christmas of 1978.
    I've always been a big fan of Star Wars since I saw the first one at a drive-in in the spring of 1977. I was so young that I didn't fully grasp what I was watching but I knew I loved it anyways. I still do. Anywho,
    I woke up that Christmas morning not knowing what to expect and wandered groggy eyed out into the house. There, underneath the tree were a bunch of Star Wars toys. I was so excited, I really didn't know how to act. I mean I was dumbfounded. Do I open up the Death Star first or the X-Wing Fighter? WoW!!! Look at all those figures!! Maybe I should check them out first!! I'm not kidding. I was so in awe I just kinda' stood there not knowing what to do!
    Well, that's pretty much how I felt when we went through the side door on this pitch black modern barn and Dave switched on the lights. There, right in front of me was a Chieftan tank:

    I was pretty much speechless.


    Then I saw a T72:

    I've seen them in books and I've seen them on film but I've never stood there staring at one in the flesh. Dave said that, to his knowledge, it's the only example in private hands in the US. I probably seemed like a weirdo because I was just standing there almost speechless. Dave said, "Climb on up and take as many pictures as you want." Well, I just stood there. The only tanks I've ever seen in person have been in museums and you can't just climb all over them. I didn't know what to do.
    "You aren't going to hurt it. It's a tank. Climb on up there." says Dave.
    So, I sheepishly climb the ladder and stepped up on the back deck of the T72 looking down as I went so as not to step on anything I shouldn't although I have no idea what that might be. I mean, I'm standing on an armored vehicle made for combat. What could I possible break by stepping on it?? Again, I was a little dumbstruck and really didn't know what to do. While up there, I took a few other pictures.


    Of the Chieftan again:


    And a T62:





    And a T55 that was captured by the Israeli's and is now being put back in running order:




    And a BMP:



    In another part of the barn was a Czech BMP:

    To the right of the picture is an East German BMP which I didn't take a picture of.


    And a BTR60:



    There was a bunch of other stuff I didn't take pictures of because I'm sure I was not acting normal. This was just so outside my normal realm of experience and I was on information overload. One thing that did get through though was Dave's generosity and just how humble he was. I told him that I didn't mean to pry but how did he afford all these things. His answer was pretty simple. In essence, he said, "God has blessed me with a wonderful wife, great kids and a wonderful life." And here he was, talking to a nobody like me and sharing all these wonderful artifacts. He didn't have to do these things but he did. I've worked in law enforcement for a number of years now so I've learned to be a pretty good and quick judge of character and I can tell when someone is trying to blow smoke. I can tell you after months of correspondence, phone calls and finally, spending the day with him, Dave Bane is a good and decent human being. He strikes me as nothing but sincere when he says that he is trying to build the best rifle he reasonably can and that he will back it up with the best customer service he reasonably can too.

    When I drove out to Indiana, I was of the mind set (remember my profession) that, if this dude is offering me unfettered access to his company and offering to do whatever it takes to make my rifle as perfect as he can, he's going to want something in return. Everyone does. They don't offer something unless they expect something back. So, while I was there I asked Dave, "What would you like me to write about your company and your rifle?"
    His answer told me everything I wanted to hear. He said, "Write whatever you want." Period. End of sentence. He asked me for nothing other than honesty.
    Some people really do do things out of simple kindness. He said, "Your write-up gave me the impression that you were really interested in the CETME L. So I figured you might like to come out to take a look at some of the neat variations in parts and see how we build them." It turns out it really was that simple. If for no other reason than that, I hope MarColMar sells every single rifle they build.



    In the next post, I'll tell you about how my rifle fared at Dave's test range and how the Spanish built rifle stacked up against the MCM on full auto. we'll also look at some furniture color variations. A closer look at an original Spanish built rifle is on the way too. Thanks for taking the time to hang out and read this. I'll see you soon!

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  5. #34
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    OMG
    I nominate this thread for Hall of Fame status.
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    needs moar AK

    or beer


  6. #35
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    Littlefield had a T-72, is it not in private hands anymore?
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  7. #36
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    I have no idea. That kind of stuff and those kind of people operate in a sphere that is totally foreign to me. I see a T72 and I think Fulda Gap, not "now who do I know that has one of those?" LOL
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  8. #37
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    After checking out the barn full of fun, Dave had to take a conference call so Frank and I headed over to the test range with my rifle, an original and a post sample built by MCM. Since it was just the two of us and I was actually involved in the testing/shooting, I set my camera down and didn't take any pictures. There wasn't much to see anywho. We were just shooting. First, we tried shooting at some reactive steel targets at 100 yards but neither of us could hit the bullseye which, if hit, would swing away to the side. Clearly, we would need to use a measurable target.

    So, Frank and I set up an extremely sophisticated target at 100 yards involving a big piece of cardboard and a couple rocks. Then Frank broke out a can of red spray paint and proceeded to spray a runny red dot.


    "We'll aim for that." NASA would have been proud!


    We walked back to the bench, I shot about five rounds and we then walked back down to take a look. We don't need no stinkin' spotting scope. We got two legs!! It was on the cardboard and much better than it was but it was still shooting to the left.


    "Can you see the sight?"
    "Yes sir, I can"


    So, we walked back and Frank had a crack at it. Still shooting left. Then Frank cranked the rear sight all the way to the right and we tried again. It was close but nope, still shooting left.


    "It's gonna' need more work."
    "Oh well, you'll fix it, I'm sure."


    That was all we could do with my rifle for the day. It was clear that something more than simple tweaking was going to be needed. So, we put my rifle to the side and loaded up a couple magazines for the original. I didn't even bother with the semi-auto setting. I already know how that shoots. I pulled the charging handle to the rear and let it fly......failure to feed.


    "Dump the round and try it again."


    That time it loaded. I pulled the trigger and it fired......one round and jammed.
    So, I cleared it and tried again. One or two more and another stoppage.
    We tried another magazine and had similar issues. Eventually, I think I got through about 40 rounds but it was a struggle. There were multiple failures to feed and it never stopped firing because I released the trigger. No, every time it stopped, it was because of a FTF.
    Frank told me it was very magazine sensitive but that it would work decently if it had just the right magazine.
    Judging by my test sample of just one rifle, I can see why Spanish troops were less than enthusiastic about the CETME L.


    Next up was the post sample built by MCM. I inserted a magazine and charged the rifle. Again, I didn't bother with the semi-auto setting as I have plenty of experience with that already. As there is no detent on the MCM receiver for full-auto, I just pushed it down to where the setting would have been and squeezed the trigger. BRAAAAP! Off went a few rounds and the rifle slowly climbed to the right.

    "Lean into it", says Frank.

    So, I lean into it and fire off a few more rounds with no problems. This is fun! After finishing off the magazine using small bursts, Frank hands me another and tells me to dump it.

    "Okiedokie"

    Now, Even though a 5.56 rifle has very little recoil on full-auto, I haven't shot one in that mode for years so I kinda' need to focus on what I'm doing or it's gonna' be all over the place. So, I squeeze the trigger and off it goes, rising to the right again. This time, I kept on the trigger and worked the CETME back down towards my target. I still didn't hit it (yep, still all over the place) but I'm sure I would have scared the hell out of it had it been alive! HAHA!!!
    Again, having not shot anything automatic in a number of years, I'm plenty rusty. But, given a little practice, I'm sure the little CETME would be a pussycat. The straight line stock configuration is well thought out and the overall heft helps too. The main thing that impressed me though was the fact that the original was a jammomatic while the MCM ran like a sewing machine. MCM says that their rifle is better than an original. In my limited experience, I'd say that's an understatement.
    By this time, Dave was finished with his call and showed up at the range. He asked if we were having fun and was my rifle shooting straight.

    "Yes....and no."
    "We'll make it right."
    "I have no doubt."

    After a little more fooling around and checking out a Swiss 24MM Tb 41 anti-tank gun (the action on that thing is as smooth as a P210), we headed back to the shop. Dave knows how to have a good time.



    Alright, let's look at some color variations present in original furniture. Dave told me that one of the things customers often bring up is the shade of green used for the reproduction polymer and Ceracote. I've noticed this too on the various forums I frequent. "Why did they pick this color because mine is that color?" "Why didn't they properly match the green?" Wellllllll, I discovered it ain't that simple. Most people have only ever seen a couple or maybe even a few more parts kits if they are lucky. Prior to my visiting the factory, I'd held a grand total of zero parts kits in my grimy mitts. Of course, I'd done a lot of online research and looked at many a picture but that's simply not the same thing as holding something in your own hands and seeing it with your own eyes. Many times, a color will look quite different in person than it does in a picture and lighting can change colors too but, of course, you already know that. What Dave told me MCM did was look at a good spectrum of the shades present in original parts and pick an average of those shades. He pointed to a door and said there were a few original bits out there in the warehouse if I was interested so we took a walk.


    Here are a "few" pistol grips:





    And stocks:




    And handguards:




    Looking at the above pictures, it should be obvious that there is no one shade that is "proper" or "correct". Instead, there is an entire RANGE of colors running from grey to forest green. Imagine standing in a pine forest an looking around. Pick any shade you see and you'll find it on a CETME L. I randomly picked some parts from each bin and took them back inside for better pictures.



    Here are seven pistol grips in no particular order under fluorescent lighting:

    Notice that the third from the left is actually grey, not green and the next one to the right is a dark forest green. The remaining five are each a different shade of green.


    Five random stocks in no particular order:

    We see two different shades of grey and three different greens. Also, notice how beat up they are, especially the middle one and check out the rust in the sling swivels. I can 100% understand why MCM had no interest in using this stuff on their new rifles.


    Nine handguards:

    There seems to be much less color variation on these. To be sure I didn't just get a bad sample, I went back out to the warehouse and did a fair amount of rooting through the bin. I could find no grey ones at all and, just like the random sample, there was much less shade variation throughout. Dave said that the handguard was the most complex mold of the three so maybe there were fewer contractors used for this part? That's just a guess of course. We'll probably never know.


    Here is a picture in natural light:

    The MCM rifle has MCM furniture. All the other furniture shown is original.


    An interesting variation in the pistol grip mold:

    Note how much longer the serrations are on the left grip as opposed to the shorter ones on the right. The left grip feels slightly more blocky too. I noticed plenty of both type in the bin.



    Now, I know what you're thinking and no, MCM will not sell you original furniture. My understanding is that, by law, they are not allowed to. Apparently, any parts that were replaced for 922 compliance cannot be sold to the customer by the manufacturer. Apex bought 100 sets of furniture from MCM for resale and Dave said it took him an entire day of digging to come up with 100 nice sets and even they were not perfect. In the picture immediately above, the loose green stock, handguard and the loose pistol grip on the far right is one of the 100 sets sold to Apex. It shows some use but it's pretty nice. IMO, if you simple MUST have an original set, it's well worth the $60 Apex is charging for them. Here's a link:
    https://www.apexgunparts.com/more/fu...-green-vg.html



    Sadly, by the time you read this, all of the furniture shown above in the bins is probably toast. As Dave was looking through them with me he said,
    "someone put time and pride into manufacturing all these and they end up as so much trash." It does suck but what's he supposed to do? MCM is a manufacturer, not a museum and storage space is at a premium so they can't just let the stuff sit around collecting dust. It reminds me of the photos you sometime see of military goods being destroyed after the war. Stacks and stacks of German helmets, rifles and various other goodies being rounded up for scrap. Time marches on.



    As to the shade variation on the metal parts, I didn't take pictures of that stuff. The furniture was out and available because it was waiting to be picked up for the scrap yard. All of the steel bits are either boxed up awaiting stripping or out on the factory floor having already been refinished. Dave told me that the paint shades on those parts also varied widely and I have no reason to question that. However, I DID find one interesting box of parts lying around:

    These are scope mounts for the LV model. Although they are stripped of parts, notice that they are set up for iron sights as too. They only have parts to build about 145 of the LV so I predict this is going to be a sought after item.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilhelm View Post
    Thank you!! That's one of the kindest things I've heard in a long time! In real life, I have a boring government job. I'd love to make a living at this stuff but I fear I'm too dumb to figure a way to make money at it. BUT......I'm for hire!!
    Not to belittle Ian Macallum, If he can do it, you can do it. The History Channel could certainly use your complete in depth firearms review instead of Ancient Aliens or Pawn Star marathons!
    God Bless our troops, especially our Snipers!

  10. #39
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    Dood, this write up has got me thinking about one of these rifles. I had previously looked at it when these first became available and pretty much wrote it off due to the mag issues.

    I do not have a 5.56 roller lock in the quiver.

    I am kind of holding out for SVD kit or rifle out of FEG but dang you are making it hard to say no.
    Wilhelm and MPiKM-72 like this.
    needs moar AK

    or beer


  11. #40
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    So, did you leave the rifle with them?
    Wilhelm likes this.

  12. #41
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    Yes sir. I had to leave it. They had it back to me in less than a week. The review on that is coming up.

  13. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottyb View Post
    Dood, this write up has got me thinking about one of these rifles. I had previously looked at it when these first became available and pretty much wrote it off due to the mag issues.

    I do not have a 5.56 roller lock in the quiver.

    I am kind of holding out for SVD kit or rifle out of FEG but dang you are making it hard to say no.
    I had always planned to get an HK93 to fill that spot in my collection and then this rifle showed up. It's even more uncommon, too, which better fits my collection. The mag issue is really a non-issue if you buy a bunch of the mags that Marcolmar is selling with these. To me it's no different than all of the other oddballs I have that require proprietary mags except these mags from Marcolmar are much cheaper! This CETME L is really nice to shoot, as well, with very low recoil.
    Wilhelm likes this.
    The switch from gunshots to injections is a sign that China "promotes human rights now," says Kang Zhongwen , who designed the Jinguan Automobile death van.

  14. #43
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    That military vehicle collection is incredible!! So cool to see those beasts preserved like that!! Very few have the space, money, or passion to do that! How do you even start a collection like that?? Where do you buy a surplus tank??
    Wilhelm likes this.
    The switch from gunshots to injections is a sign that China "promotes human rights now," says Kang Zhongwen , who designed the Jinguan Automobile death van.

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    In this post, we're going to look at few detail shots of an original Cetme L as built by the Spanish. I'm not going into great detail on the rifle because there really is very little difference between it and the MCM offering externally. The HMG rifle is very close too. First, let's start with a word about colors. As noted earlier, the paint and furniture hues varied significantly over the production run of the rifle. When you consider wear, probable multiple subcontractors, exposure to UV light, time, exposure to chemicals and exposure to things I'm not even considering, you're gonna' see a rainbow of greens and even some grey. Again, think pine forest in spring. Another factor is lighting when the picture was taken. Below are two pictures taken of the exact same rifles (an original and a MCM) in the exact same position using the exact same camera. Only the lighting has changed:


    If you didn't know better, you would swear we were looking at four different rifles in four different shade of green. Yes, I sound like I'm beating a dead horse here but I know someone is going to ask why HMG and/or MCM didn't finish their rifles in the same color as the originals. The answer is that they did. They just didn't finish it in the same hue you are looking at. Ok, done with that. Moving on.



    First up are a few overall comparison shots of the three manufacturers.


    Right side:

    Original is at the top with MCM below and HMG on the bottom.



    Left side in same order:



    Detail receiver right side, Spanish:



    MCM:



    HMG:





    Detail receiver left side, Spanish:



    MCM:

    The bit of blue tape is leftover from test firing. MCM tapes off various places during testing so that your rifle's finish doesn't get dinged up in the process.



    HMG:

    There is a serial number there. It just didn't show up for some reason.




    scottyb and Walleye like this.

  16. #45
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    All of the pictures in this post will only show an original rifle unless specifically stated otherwise.



    A little bit better shot of the Santa Barbara logo:

    Notice that the pistol grip color doesn't match the stock color.


    Compare the above to the same shot of an MCM. It isn't 100% exact but as close as can be reasonably expected:




    Welds on right side of cocking tube:




    Top of cocking tube:




    Left side of cocking tube:




    Right side of rear sight:




    Left side of rear sight:




    Magazine well markings, reinforcement ribs:





    Selector and serial number:




    Stock pin holes:




    Ejection port flare:

    I originally thought this detail terminated farther toward the front of the port. I was wrong.



    Weld at rear of trunnion where it meets the carrier rail:

    One of my original complaints about the welds on the MCM rifle involved them not copying this detail more closely. I REALLY like how well the Spanish addressed this weld. I just looks so intricately done. But Frank explained to me that MCM decided to close this area up a little more completely because of propellant blowback. I do have to say, while the MCM solution isn't quite as elegant looking as the original, it DOES work as intended.




    Cross section at rear of receiver:



    From another angle:




    Back of rear sight and a view along the receiver:

    Note the paint run at the top rear corner of the sight and, more interesting, the fact that there is no divot for a scope mount. Some rear sights have it and some don't. I have no idea why but I'd bet that it's absent on later production.



    Trigger box:

    It is shown above with the hammer fully down and being held by the safety sear. When the bolt group locks forward and your finger is off the trigger, it will trip the safety sear and the hammer will rise slightly to the position shown below where it is being held by the trigger sear:

    Whoop-de-do! Why does this even matter?? Here's why. Practically speaking, you don't need to remover the trigger box for cleaning every time you clean the rifle; it just doesn't get that dirty. Removing the trigger box is, to be blunt, a fiddly pain in the buttocks so it would be nice if you could leave the box in place, just pull the funky dirty bolt group out, clean it, clean your barrel and then slap it all back together. Well, on an original rifle you can do that because, when you pull the bolt to the rear, the safety sear holds the hammer low enough that it does not interfere with your sliding the bolt group back into the receiver and driving it home. Unfortunately, the safety sear is not present on the either the MCM or HMG rifles because it's a full-automatic part. This means that the hammer is only ever held by the trigger sear in the higher position thus preventing the bolt from being driven home without having first removed the trigger box. That kinda' blows but the alternative is having no rifle at all thanks to silly ATF rules. I hope that all made sense!



    Bolt group showing Spanish applied finish:

    When I first disassembled my MCM rifle, I assumed it just came out of an unissued rifle because the phosphate finish looked exactly like the finish seen here. Nope. Every single original part has been stripped and refinished by MCM. It just looks identical to the original finish because they REALLY did their homework. Schweet!!



    Weld at front of magazine well:

    This is another detail that I originally found a bit disappointing on the MCM rifle but have since discovered is done just like an original. On the HMG AMG, this weld is ground flat and nicely dressed. It looks better (and that's nice) but it's not original. MCM left it just as an original would be (and that's nice too). This is one of those little things that makes me like both the HMG and MCM offerings. Both have plenty of things to like.



    In my limited experience, Spanish firearms are usually almost completely devoid of markings save for the main ones. They aren't like German or Soviet firearms where you find little inspection marks all over the place. True to form, this marking on the barrel is the only one I found:

    Maybe if I spent hours pouring over every single nook and cranny, I would have found a couple more but I simply didn't have that kind of time. I asked Dave if I could just take it home with me and I'd return it in a week and he just grinned. Yes, I know that would be illegal. Don't get yourself in a snit.



    Alright, that's it for tonight. We're in the home stretch. Just a couple more small things to cover (including a look at what was done to repair my rifle including my first range trip after I got it back) and we're done. As always, thank you for your time and I will leave you with a word of advise. Avoid dropping your rifle from a 100 foot cliff. It may break when it hits the bottom. OK bye!!
    scottyb, swizz, Walleye and 2 others like this.

 

 
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