MarColMar and HMG Cetme L a Detailed Comparison - Page 2
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Thread: MarColMar and HMG Cetme L a Detailed Comparison

  1. #16
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    I talked to malcomar last week and they said second half of this year they would be offering kit building for around a 1000$ but they won't use my barrel because they make there own.
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  2. #17
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    Outstanding write up! Thank you for the knowledge and effort to share.
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    Budoka34
    "Lead, follow, or get out of the way!"

    Looking for used RPK/AES10B and RPD, drums, 40 rnd mags, 40 rnd mag pouches, RPK and RPD related equipment and propaganda.

  3. #18
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    I had to go outside to clean up snow today but found this picture as I was getting ready. On the back was written, "February 1945. A member of Kampfgruppe Dummkopf takes aim from inside a house. He is armed with an example of a super duper top secret experimental wunderwaffe known only by its code name AMG (Armee Mann Gewehr).

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  5. #19
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    Apex has Marcolmars unused stock sets for $59 for those interested
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  6. #20
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    Great write up as always Wilhelm. I can't wait to see how it does at the range. IMHO, its posts like these that set this forum apart from so many others, and it can be summed up by simply saying there is not only a wide broad base of knowledge here, but many like you share that knowledge with the rest of us. God I love this hobby!
    1508211966549.jpg
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  7. #21
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    Well, I finally got the chance to get the MCM rifle to the range this past weekend. I was really looking forward to this because, having had the HMG one for a while now and enjoying how reliable and accurate it is, I was expecting more of the same from the new MCM. It was the first decently warm day we've had here for months so that, coupled with it being a Sunday, meant a full range. Normally, I start a new rifle at 25 yards to make sure it's on paper and walk it out from there but, because it was so busy, I didn't want to bother people so I just set my target out at 100 yard and hoped for the best. I guess I could use a spotting scope but I don't own one, You see, I'm a pretty unsophisticated guy and I enjoy the walking back and forth as it's good for me. Besides, the range I use is often pretty deserted so I just fire a few rounds, walk down to check the target, adjust the sights and repeat. The disadvantage to this way of doing things is that it's pretty much unworkable with a busy range. That's ok, it just gives me an excuse to go to the range more often!
    Anywho, I set the target up and commenced to shooting 100 rounds of plain ol' Lake City M855 ball as recommended by the manual.
    Let's start with reliability. I had exactly zero problems. In fact, it was quite obvious that MarColMAr put a lot of effort into tuning the springs just right. I own a fair number of roller locked firearms from Switzerland, Germany, Turkey and Pakistan so I am used to how these things usually eject the casings into orbit and mangle them while doing so. The only exception to this rule until this past weekend has been my SIG 510. That rifle almost drops the casings out at your feet because the design is so perfectly balanced.....it's Swiss.....that's what they do. But I digress.
    The HMG rifle ejects casings just like my HK93, violently and destructively. The MCM AMG is in direct contrast to that and is more like the SIG. Casings were uniformly ejected at about 2 o'clock and landed about 8 feet away.

    Let's take a look at a random sampling of ten spent cartridges:

    It's hard to tell from my terrible washed out picture but almost every single one is dented (from slapping against the receiver) in almost exactly the same place. I used to seeing cases so mangled (again, with the SIG being a notable exception) they look like they were beat with a hammer. I'm no engineer but the uniformity of marks on the brass tells me the system is almost perfectly balanced.



    Here's a closeup of the dent's I'm talking about:

    I'm assuming that, if you're reading this, you already understand about flutes on roller locks and why spent rounds are so dirty so I won't bother discussing that.



    However, just for fun, I want post a picture illustrating how the brass expanded into the flutes a little which is, of course, perfectly normal:

    I just love looking at these things. Roller locks turn each spent casing into a miniature work of art. I wish I could keep them all.



    Here we see that only the case on the far right shows any sign of neck deformity. Usually, these things are pretty smashed in:




    And the base:

    Not much to see here.



    So, so far, reliability is perfect!



    Next up are some thoughts on the front sight. As I pointed out earlier in this thread, the front sight on the MCM is much thinner than the one that came on my HMG rifle so it should be more precise. While I'm sure it is, that is lost on my aging eyes. I'm sure that I could have made better use of the front sight 20 years ago but it's just too thin for me now. It's so blurry that much of the time I was guessing about where the top of it was. If I REALLY concentrated, I could sometimes make it out but the fact is, at my age, a wider front sight post would be better. Of course, MCM makes a version with a rail on top the receiver so I could but one of those and mount an optic but I'm a purist and wanted my AMG to be as close to original as possible. This precluded a rail. My advise to MarColMar is that they offer front sight blades of different widths so that us older dudes can tune our sights to our geezerish peepers.


    I'd also like to say something about the trigger pull. As I said, I'm not very sophisticated so I don't have one of those fancy-dancy trigger pull weight thingees. This means I have no idea what weight the pull actually is. What I do know is that, at round number 1, the MCM rifle had a trigger pull almost identical to my HK93 and 91, which is to say it's kind of heavy and creepy. I can also tell you that the HMG rifle has a pull significantly less heavy and less creepy than any of those three. The good news is, by round number 100, it was much lighter and smoother. It still isn't quite as good as the HMG trigger but it's now better than my HK's which have had a metric ton of rounds through them over the past 30 years. They are most definitely NOT getting any better at this point. SO, kudo's to both MCM and HMG on besting the Teutonic gods!



    Let's move on to accuracy.
    I'd love to tell you how accurate this rifle is but I can't. After I fired all 100 rounds I waited for the range to go cold and headed down to retrieve the target, curious as to how well it grouped. To my slight surprise, the target was as whole as when I hung it up. Not one round touched it. I thought, "that's damned odd" and headed home, hoping to head out the next day when the range would likely be much less busy.
    I was in luck as the next day there were only a few of us at the range. So, I set my target out at 25 yards, loaded three rounds into the magazine, took aim and fired. Of the first three shots, only one was on the very far left. No problem. Crank the rear sight to the right five or six clicks and try again. The next three were farther right but still nowhere near the center of the target. Lets crank it farther right. Click, click, click, stop. Oh crap....the sight is buried as far right as it will go! Let's try three more rounds. Nope, still well left of center. We have a problem.

    Here's the 25 yard target:

    The single hole circled in blue was part of my first three rounds. The next set is circled in green. By the third set of shots, circled in red, you can tell I beginning to get frustrated as the shot dispersion is opening up. Disheartened, I cleaned up and headed home to take pictures.



    Here are a few pictures of the rear sight as it currently sits:










    Having been shooting for more decades than I want to admit now and having owned the HMG Cetme L for some time as well, I think I'm pretty good on knowing how to aim a rifle but, just to be sure, I took the rifle to the range again today and recruited two random guys to try the rifle out at 25 yards. One was an older gentleman whom I often see at the range so I know he shoots a fair amount. The other was a younger guy who I have only run into one other time but he obviously knows what he is doing as well. I still had 9 rounds of M855 ball left from Monday when I tried to zero the rifle so I asked one guy to fire five rounds at the bottom of the black using a six o'clock hold. I then asked the other shooter to fire six rounds at the colored dot using the same six o'clock hold. Below is the result with the first guy circled in red:

    I hate to say it but, at this point, I have a beautiful green rifle that cannot be zeroed. I guess I need to contact MarColMar. It's under warranty so I have no doubt that MCM will do whatever is necessary to correct the problem. I will report back.
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  8. #22
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    That sucks about not being able to zero. I had this problem with an FN49, and at least one of the problems was the crown believe it or not. Once that got fixed, it still groups to one side with the sight cranked over.
    I'm still trying to figure out how to correct this, so I'm interested to see what is causing this in your rifle.
    I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.
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  9. #23
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    Man,that sucks. Keep us posted. Still need to shoot mine...


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  10. #24
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    MCM has already contacted me and I was told that they have changed their production methods to make sure this won't be an issue going forward. They have also told me that they will do whatever it takes to fix the issue with my rifle. Stellar customer service! I'll be reporting back once it's taken care of.
    JoeMomma likes this.

  11. #25
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    I just got back from Indiana on Friday after touring MarColMar's facility. MarColMar owner, Dave Bane, generously invited me out after reading this write-up. It was neat seeing all the racks of rifles, the production line and how it all came together. I also had the chance to try out an original CETME L, one of MarColMar's post samples and even check out Dave Bane's tank collection. In short, it was a fun and entertaining trip! I gotta' tell you, the folks at MarColMar are not just dedicated manufacturers but they are First Class folks too! I'll be going into more detail with some pictures and posting it in my CETME L thread in a few days. I'll also be filling you in on the status of my rifle.
    In the meantime, here are a few preview pictures:











  12. #26
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    T-64?
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    I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me.
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  13. #27
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    T62. The first picture is a Chieftan and I'm standing on a T72 in the second one. The little bit of a barrel you see in the right of the picture is a T55 and in front of the T72, you can see just the very front corner of a BMP.
    Last edited by Wilhelm; 03-25-2019 at 07:15 AM.
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  14. #28
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    Chieftain with stillbrew add-on armor. Has an L60 engine that makes a 25 year old Yugo car seem reliable.

    Sent from my Lenovo TB2-X30F using Tapatalk
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  15. #29
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    LOL. Yeah, I was told it's prety tempermental. In fact, there was a spare engine in storage.

  16. #30
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    You really either do this professionally or need to be doing it professionally. If you wouldn't want to write for a living, then there is always a place for someone like you in Quality control.
    Professional, detailed, crisp and clear. Thank you for your work.

 

 
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