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Thread: Soviet army ak-47 use: primarily full auto or semi?

  1. #31
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    I don't dispute the bold claim Russian aks were used full auto mainly or even that little care was given to shoot semi auto by aiming in the old era. please explain. ive not seen anyone explain it how it was to work realistically. I have to say this. ive had 1000s of people all across America in public at gun shows tell me aks aren't accurate and aks suck and only pink commies like aks etc. that was the most common blow off steam reaction to some folks looking at my tables in passing in old times. I became used to random idiots.

    ive spent the better part of my entire life proving them wrong since the days when aks weren't cool at all unless a traitor. ive shot and fine tuned ak rifles to the point id feel well armed even with damaged 180 over 60 vision to match anyone or beat them in a range rifle test with my dialed in aks. they are certainly not inaccurate like americans used to think. the masses of Americans [mostly rednecks thesedays] go around repeating that kind of stuff in drunkenness as if it were fact so when I hear this from an ex soviet soldier I gotta hear what you have to say.

    of course a lot of folks here are gonna not agree with you until you explain every detail because in recent years aks have been proven to be extremely accurate almost 100% of the time if communist factory built and many movies have been made in recent Russian Hollywood equivalent depicting well aimed fire. this topic might be the earliest origin as to why the ak is thought to be inaccurate. conscript soldiers firing into nothing in open fields. everyones seen that depicted. if it was a soviet pr stunt it seems to have backfired. most think aks are inaccurate because of it just maybe that's most of where that comes from. as if everything else is more accurate. and as if everyone knows whos fired a shotgun and mauser or Winchester model 70.

    this has been a good thread to read.
    want to buy Chinese cq [m16a1 copy] wavy ribbed whatever forarms. preferably worn used by philipine pirates but ill settle for new.

    if you have old m16a1 stuff especially stuff that looks used by Asian sea faring pirates or insurgents I probably want to cuddle with it and not give it back.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by COMM BLOC View Post
    I don't dispute the bold claim Russian aks were used full auto mainly or even that little care was given to shoot semi auto by aiming in the old era. please explain. ive not seen anyone explain it how it was to work realistically. I have to say this. ive had 1000s of people all across America in public at gun shows tell me aks aren't accurate and aks suck and only pink commies like aks etc. that was the most common blow off steam reaction to some folks looking at my tables in passing in old times. I became used to random idiots.

    ive spent the better part of my entire life proving them wrong since the days when aks weren't cool at all unless a traitor. ive shot and fine tuned ak rifles to the point id feel well armed even with damaged 180 over 60 vision to match anyone or beat them in a range rifle test with my dialed in aks. they are certainly not inaccurate like americans used to think. the masses of Americans [mostly rednecks thesedays] go around repeating that kind of stuff in drunkenness as if it were fact so when I hear this from an ex soviet soldier I gotta hear what you have to say.

    of course a lot of folks here are gonna not agree with you until you explain every detail because in recent years aks have been proven to be extremely accurate almost 100% of the time if communist factory built and many movies have been made in recent Russian Hollywood equivalent depicting well aimed fire. this topic might be the earliest origin as to why the ak is thought to be inaccurate. conscript soldiers firing into nothing in open fields. everyones seen that depicted. if it was a soviet pr stunt it seems to have backfired. most think aks are inaccurate because of it just maybe that's most of where that comes from. as if everything else is more accurate. and as if everyone knows whos fired a shotgun and mauser or Winchester model 70.

    this has been a good thread to read.
    Who said "conscript soldiers firing INTO NOTHING IN OPEN FIELDS" ?

    In "open field" wrom Eastern front till today in Ukraine you prepare your attack with huge amount of artilery shelling of all sorts and during that art attack your soldiers run come closer and shoot averything that moves with full auto shpagin or ak never mind. If you are on the oposit side you know that when artilery starts to hit you really hard in next 2-3 min there will be ground attack if they are 500m or closer and if you hide from artilery you are dead man. It is the same in longer distances just longer artillery attack and faster movement of infantry (btr...). Russian/soviet experience comes from ww2 when infront of them were for ex. on their line of attack more than 20 000 anti personel and tenk mines in 5km2 and without huge amount of shelling there is no way of just soldiers running over open field...

  3. #33
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    In 2002, I worked with the Uzbeck version of the Spenatz, I spent several days shooting at an abandoned bus with various elements of the UZB SOF that was fighting the IMU. Everyone shot on semi, the shots were aimed, and the UZB SOF cats preferred the 7.62 to the 5.45. The 40 round mag was mag of choice and under barrel grenade launchers were on 2 of evry3 AK-47's. The fixed stock was preferred over the underfolder. The RPK-47 was used in a supporting roll with drums and the three round burst the method of suppressing fire. The PKM was nowhere to be seen and the RPG was very common and everyone carried 1-2 rounds for the gunners. The Krink was seen in the hands of some higher up cat that came to visit, but I think it was carried as a status symbol.
    The UZB cats were physically fit and used to hard living. No complaints were heard during training. They lacked decent comms and NVG's. I never saw any pistols and was told they generally were not carried. The uniform was a gray/blue camo pattern, while the UZB warrant officer in charge of the range wore mottled brown/green camo. The last night at the range we had a cook out and the UZB cats brought a live sheep to the range and butchered it on scene and cooked it on a rotating spit. It was quite good and and the UZB cats toasted us with much vodka, but never seemed to really get hammered or loose control while drinking.
    Ah to be young again....18Z50
    btr and COMM BLOC like this.

  4. #34
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    Over the years I've talked to a few guys who served in the Soviet Army in different eras: 70's to the end in 91 most of them told me they did a lot of their training with the gun on full-automatic shooting in bursts. Zeroing of course was done in semi auto.

    If you look at their tactics bursts of fire aimed or poorly aimed (either long or short) would enable them to gain fire superiority and allow them to maneuver onto targets and obliterate them at close range.

    If memory serves me right: The smallest group of Soviets you probably would have met on the fields of Europe would have been about a battalion of motorized/mechanized infantry- if you have that many guys dismounted and advancing firing bursts and supported by BMP's, BTR's, BRDM's, probably tanks and always mortars and artillery. The Russians did not have any large non-motorized or non-mechanized formations in Europe (some airborne & Spetznaz detachments though but that was still a distinct minority). It would be very difficult to suppress that while also keep from being suppressed and stop the oncoming waves and then they would be able to close the distance and riddle any surviving defenders with bullets at close range before moving on.
    Most Soviet battle plans I believe revolved around shock actions and having to cover so many Kilometers a day and maintain that momentum to keep NATO from having time to react, defend, mobilize reserves and get reinforcements from the USA to POMCUS sites and into the fray. The faster that were to be accomplished the less chance NATO had to effectively defend and that's what it boils down to (at least to me) was to be able to mass as much fire on and gain fire superiority on a target to allow freedom of maneuver end then destroy it-perhaps it is a oversimplification but that is what it seems like to me. Firepower it seems started at the man with his AK constantly on the move and firing and radiates outward from there to encompass all supporting elements (Maybe a bit to romantic a view).
    COMM BLOC and Stuxnet like this.
    "odio vitae semper dissolubilis"

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    "Senecta aetas viresque, atque perfidium expugnat"

    "sic semper purgamentus Yugo kalashnikov! Tempus orbem ad excoquam eorum et dimittetur eis!"

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batob View Post
    Who said "conscript soldiers firing INTO NOTHING IN OPEN FIELDS" ?

    In "open field" wrom Eastern front till today in Ukraine you prepare your attack with huge amount of artilery shelling of all sorts and during that art attack your soldiers run come closer and shoot averything that moves with full auto shpagin or ak never mind. If you are on the oposit side you know that when artilery starts to hit you really hard in next 2-3 min there will be ground attack if they are 500m or closer and if you hide from artilery you are dead man. It is the same in longer distances just longer artillery attack and faster movement of infantry (btr...). Russian/soviet experience comes from ww2 when infront of them were for ex. on their line of attack more than 20 000 anti personel and tenk mines in 5km2 and without huge amount of shelling there is no way of just soldiers running over open field...
    all of the films either training films Russian movies even the 5 part series liberation of 60s fame depicting ww2 and pretty much everything else show massed Russian troops firing into open fields at nothing. no opposing troops ahead of them for a half mile or worse just not there at all. heheh. kinda unrealistic ive always figured.
    want to buy Chinese cq [m16a1 copy] wavy ribbed whatever forarms. preferably worn used by philipine pirates but ill settle for new.

    if you have old m16a1 stuff especially stuff that looks used by Asian sea faring pirates or insurgents I probably want to cuddle with it and not give it back.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by KMFDM View Post
    Over the years I've talked to a few guys who served in the Soviet Army in different eras: 70's to the end in 91 most of them told me they did a lot of their training with the gun on full-automatic shooting in bursts. Zeroing of course was done in semi auto.

    If you look at their tactics bursts of fire aimed or poorly aimed (either long or short) would enable them to gain fire superiority and allow them to maneuver onto targets and obliterate them at close range.

    If memory serves me right: The smallest group of Soviets you probably would have met on the fields of Europe would have been about a battalion of motorized/mechanized infantry- if you have that many guys dismounted and advancing firing bursts and supported by BMP's, BTR's, BRDM's, probably tanks and always mortars and artillery. The Russians did not have any large non-motorized or non-mechanized formations in Europe (some airborne & Spetznaz detachments though but that was still a distinct minority). It would be very difficult to suppress that while also keep from being suppressed and stop the oncoming waves and then they would be able to close the distance and riddle any surviving defenders with bullets at close range before moving on.
    Most Soviet battle plans I believe revolved around shock actions and having to cover so many Kilometers a day and maintain that momentum to keep NATO from having time to react, defend, mobilize reserves and get reinforcements from the USA to POMCUS sites and into the fray. The faster that were to be accomplished the less chance NATO had to effectively defend and that's what it boils down to (at least to me) was to be able to mass as much fire on and gain fire superiority on a target to allow freedom of maneuver end then destroy it-perhaps it is a oversimplification but that is what it seems like to me. Firepower it seems started at the man with his AK constantly on the move and firing and radiates outward from there to encompass all supporting elements (Maybe a bit to romantic a view).
    that's pretty much how I shoot anyway when I go to the range most days. I see a ridgeline and think to myself ive only got 5 3ord mags on me.. can I clean out them bunny holes and make it back without running out of ammo? god forbid a bunny actually runs out the other end of the hole when im firing into it. mag changes at the wrong moment suck. always good to attack bunnies and ground hog holes en masse. I pretty much shoot up the place. targets are not actually a must.

    I watched a lot of soviet propaganda films growing up. can ya tell? im being serious. Hollywood I think shaped how I fired my ak growing up. always good to have a buddy cover you when changing mags so yeah the en masse thing definitely works. not broken or nothin'.
    want to buy Chinese cq [m16a1 copy] wavy ribbed whatever forarms. preferably worn used by philipine pirates but ill settle for new.

    if you have old m16a1 stuff especially stuff that looks used by Asian sea faring pirates or insurgents I probably want to cuddle with it and not give it back.

  7. #37
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    It seems to depend on the unit, conscript foot soldiers vs professional spec ops operatives, etc, etc. Each unit probably had/has a different doctrine depending on tactics, situation, type of attack, and what would work best given the situation at hand.

    It has to be remembered, though, that when Lt Gen. Kalashnikov designed the AK-47, Russian Army doctrine focused on suppression fire at relatively close range. And there were by 1945 whole platoons armed with almost nothing but PPSh-41 SMGs. But it seemed to be recognized that the German StG44 had the edge in range (also, the Germans usually used them in semi auto except as necessary). Hence, the SKS and ultimately the AK-47 was developed. It combined the longer range of the StG44/SKS with the close range fire power of the PPSh.

    Overtime, though, it seems that things have changed a bit. It has to be remembered that the AK-47 was intended, at least in a pinch, to be able to stand a good chance at hitting a man sized target out to 300 yards/meters away. Hence the 300m battle sight zero. On the AK-74, this increased to 400 yards/meters (about a quarter of a mile away) because of the better long range ballistics of the 5.45mm round.

    If anyone's seen the AK Operators Union review videos, a decently made AK-47 (or any AK firing the 7.62x39mm round) can with iron sights hit a man sized silhouette target to 300m/330yds away if the shooter does his part. But when introduced, the AK was intended to provide serious close range firepower with more lethality and stopping power than a SMG.

    But to see how things have changed up a bit, here's a promo video from Kalashnikov Concern showing the AK-12 and AK-74M3 being fired solely in semi auto:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qD8-2gZlGE

    And AK-12s being fired in semi auto and two round burst (AK-12s have semi auto, two shot burst, and full auto selector settings):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQSK_DZPX5k

    And KC demo team firing AK-12s in semi auto (and using the German Army's WWII StG44 semi auto fire and advance tactics):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbPXtNlhLtU

 

 
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