Soviet army ak-47 use: primarily full auto or semi? - Page 2
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Thread: Soviet army ak-47 use: primarily full auto or semi?

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    Videos and classroom..........

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    Still zero factual evidence has been to support that everyone was trained for full auto firing no matter the situation, just anecdotal statements from a single person. dnepr0mike, im not calling you out or a liar, and I completely understand if you would rather forget what you experienced, but any further details with regards to what unit(s) you were in, when you served, where you trained, your MOS would help the discussion. For all we know you were a cook(still a very important job) and they didnt bother to train you with a rifle but 2 times a year, that should be taken as gospel for all front line infantry tactics in every scenario.
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    Lol this thread is funny. Dnepr gave you straight answer but you dont get it. I understand why. Even today I dont think they get more than few times shooting during military service in Russia. It is because shooting is not the most important thing for 18-19 yo when they come to serve in the army for 2 years. It was the same in Yugoslavia. I dont know if it is the same in Russia now and was it like that in SU but later every few years they have trainings, men who served their time in the army. They shoot a lot than
    Also, off course it was made to shoot mostly full auto. Soviet/army concept is "industrialism" complete destruction and one soldier with the rifle is just to support with as much as posible firepower not to play Zaicev around. Even that fuc...ing 5.45 round is made to recoshete as much as posible... And finaly, what is there to train with AK and shooting? When SHTF it is very accurate for any soldier anyway...
    All that I wrote is for regular army not SF units and proffesionals.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wingnut308 View Post
    Still zero factual evidence has been to support that everyone was trained for full auto firing no matter the situation, just anecdotal statements from a single person. dnepr0mike, im not calling you out or a liar, and I completely understand if you would rather forget what you experienced, but any further details with regards to what unit(s) you were in, when you served, where you trained, your MOS would help the discussion. For all we know you were a cook(still a very important job) and they didnt bother to train you with a rifle but 2 times a year, that should be taken as gospel for all front line infantry tactics in every scenario.
    I am not calling you out or a liar dnepr0mike. But you are saying he has no clue unless he proves to you he has a clue. So who are you to tell us
    whether or not he has the creds to make these statements, where are your creds that says you can read his (whatever) and tell us whether or not
    he is correct. Where are your papers that tell us you know and understand Russian tactics and have studied them enough to know he is incorrect?

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    I'm just saying he's been very vague about his experience and never directly answered the question asked by btr, but I'm supposed to just accept that as fact? For the record, I'd say that the AK was designed for primarily auto fire, but a picture has been painted here of an army that has little to no actual marksmanship training and they are nothing but conscript grunts taught to spray and pray, and that I'd like to play the devils advocate and ask for specifics and/or a second opinion.

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    As a child of the cold war I was interested in our "enemy". I don't agree with any of the beliefs, politics, or policies. I find it fascinating to study Soviet and Warsaw pact militaries nonetheless.

    In the interest of getting this thread back to informational purposes, here is something to point you in the direction of your questions. Our military spent a huge effort studying our foe and writing about them. I would suggest a google search of "The Soviet Army" series of field manuals, FM 100-2-1, FM 100-2-2, FM 100-2-3. Usually you can find a pdf file to view the entire manual. They will have all you want to know and more. If you keep an eye out you can find those FMs and more on the cheap.

    Some of my collection.

    Last edited by JeepFan; 01-04-2017 at 07:43 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wingnut308 View Post
    ...an army that has little to no actual marksmanship training and they are nothing but conscript grunts taught to spray and pray...
    For the conscripted elements of the Soviet Army, this actually sums it up. Except for "pray". I don't blame him for being unable to romanticize the experience, life in the Soviet infantry for most enlisted men was fucking savage. And that was before you even got out of the barracks.

    The "spray and advance" offensive strategy for AK-equipped infantry sounds a lot like the way Ppsh-equipped troops were deployed in late WWII (which perhaps sprang from the original shock troop strategies utilized under Czarist General Brusilov in WWI).
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    Short bursts is what we practiced most. And service was OK, not sure what "fucking savage... before you even got out of the barracks" means It was good to be young!
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnepr0mike View Post
    although majority of old documentation is in russian anyways so even if one could find it it'll be hardly of much use to non-native speaker.
    The Google Translate app can live translate through the phone camera, or a combination of OCR and Google Translate access through Google Docs can be abused to mass translate texts.

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    I had two colleagues who had vastly different experience in the Soviet military (mid to late 1980s). One was in radiocommunications, and didn't have much to say about it - nothing really bad, mostly boring. I recall him mentioning him saying that he fired a rifle "like twice" in his entire time. He mentioned short bursts, because he got in a lot of trouble for dumping an entire mag downrange.

    The other colleague mentioned nothing but full auto practice. This guy had a tougher time in the army. He was a tanker, and had some really abusive senior NCOs and junior officers. Lots of hazing, lots of drinking (including some fluids not meant for human consumption). One story I recall offhand - a drunken LT got in his face while he was sitting working on something. The LT drew his pistol and cocked/decocked it a few times to make a clicking sound (I guess to rattle him). Of course, the pistol discharged striking the ground right between his legs ... really, really close. He was pissed because the ricocheting gravel hit him hard in the cohones. He said he could never tell his sergeant what happened, because then he'd really get a beat down for ratting out his LT. So he just had to suck up the injury.

    FWIW, and YMMV. Just a few of many stories traded over coffee and beer.
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    Maybe some of the clarification on tactics and experience should explained by the period. 50s? 70s? 80s? I'm sure 1953 and 1983 would be significantly different, though the OP did not ask.

    Your experience may vary
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    Quote Originally Posted by spb_la View Post
    Short bursts is what we practiced most. And service was OK, not sure what "fucking savage... before you even got out of the barracks" means It was good to be young!

    Perhaps your particular military experience was better than others due to your specialization or sheer luck. I don't know about naval forces, but the "savage" experiences of many land force conscripts in the Soviet (and post-Soviet) military are well documented. Ratmil's anecdote would be a common example; I've seen no information that suggests its limited to armored units.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ratmil View Post
    The other colleague mentioned nothing but full auto practice. This guy had a tougher time in the army. He was a tanker, and had some really abusive senior NCOs and junior officers. Lots of hazing, lots of drinking (including some fluids not meant for human consumption). One story I recall offhand - a drunken LT got in his face while he was sitting working on something. The LT drew his pistol and cocked/decocked it a few times to make a clicking sound (I guess to rattle him). Of course, the pistol discharged striking the ground right between his legs ... really, really close. He was pissed because the ricocheting gravel hit him hard in the cohones. He said he could never tell his sergeant what happened, because then he'd really get a beat down for ratting out his LT. So he just had to suck up the injury.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wingnut308 View Post
    Still zero factual evidence has been to support that everyone was trained for full auto firing no matter the situation, just anecdotal statements from a single person. dnepr0mike, im not calling you out or a liar, and I completely understand if you would rather forget what you experienced, but any further details with regards to what unit(s) you were in, when you served, where you trained, your MOS would help the discussion. For all we know you were a cook(still a very important job) and they didnt bother to train you with a rifle but 2 times a year, that should be taken as gospel for all front line infantry tactics in every scenario.
    this question has always bugged me. how did ak mags get resupplied and distributed in the field??? I mean did btr carry 240 of them in a magic cargo hold or what? I have to ask because ive shot blanks at my family in woods for half a day and similar stuff live fire on steel propane canister targets and you expend your 3 or 4 mags a soviet soldier carries in one initial charge within 200 feet doing the minimum burst thing when the en masse force attack method is employed as it exists in pics and doctrine. ive even tried to slow down my fire, aim, shoot slow while advancing, bring more mags in backpack etc. I still don't get it those old pics and videos of soviet en masse charges.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCHblu3FONk

    also ive talked to ex soviet service members all have different stories and one guy swears he was a telephone pole guy and shot one single round thru a milled ak upon completion of training. that guys actually Hungarian at least originally and his official duty was to erect a bizzilion telephone poles. a story I barely understand but I see the guy a lot and somehow believe him. I guess the certain era used full auto more by some certain training methods but its hard to understand to what extent. sure hope someone can explain the details and compare to other era soviet soldiers stories. these stories of a specific era in soviet doctrine must be a golden time capsule if someone can tell us and need disgussed in great detail. its hard for me to believe too at first.

    after seeing it in books since age 6 well 31 years later I still don't get it.
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    this is going to sound funny but its like a video game. in the Hollywood movie type video game the Russian soldiers advance across an open field the size of the battle of Kursk firing short bursts into nothing but general areas all done from the hip or on the run somewhat aimed. in this video game you expend 72 30rd magazines on the run while difining what the Hollywood world thinks is actual suppressive fire. doesn't make sense in real life. im figuring on this being nothing more than show of force for training films and the like. if 240 mags in a cargo hold do exist in the less than spacious btr etc then where at and where did they store the pkm ammo etc and how?
    want to buy Chinese cq [m16a1 copy] wavy ribbed whatever forarms. preferably worn used by philipine pirates but ill settle for new.

    if you have old m16a1 stuff especially stuff that looks used by Asian sea faring pirates or insurgents I probably want to cuddle with it and not give it back.

 

 
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