1992 Tula HG's - Help Please
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Thread: 1992 Tula HG's - Help Please

  1. #1
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    1992 Tula HG's - Help Please

    I have a mint 92 Tula kit and I had a set of haggard HG's for it (Thanks Jacob Biczo lol)

    So I asked Oleg (Russ military.com) for a set of dark 92 Tula correct HG's and I got these. We're the deacts that came over that had the super dark finish refurbed and are these even close to being correct?

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    there was no standard on how 'dark' these needed to be to pass. bunch of them were take-offs, re-arsenaled, re-issued, re-used, bubba-ed, etc. i've seen krinks in the Ukrainian storage depot that were all shades of brown to yellow-grey. yellow ones were those with shellac almost completely worn-off. i've seen some really dark ones from being held by dirty hands and then re-arsenaled over with shellac with just minimal cleaning. i've seen like new rifles with well-worn handguards and the other way around. but majority looked like light-brown to dark-rich amber. what you have in hand seems like an average representative of the breed. i wouldn't sweat it, personally.



    Last edited by dnepr0mike; 04-12-2017 at 09:13 AM.
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    Take with salt... I'm not a expert by any stretch but from what I have on hand this is what I see.


    The numbered nonvented hg's 82-85 are darker (in my particular lot of 200~ very small in the grand scheme) 85-92 unnumbered non vented again (in my particular lot) tend to be lighter. These are all non refurb.


    Also are there any proof marks on that set?


    https://www.flickr.com/photos/151686...h/33182535743/




    IMG_0396 by John Smith, on Flickr


    IMG_0382 by John Smith, on Flickr


    IMG_0391 by John Smith, on Flickr


    IMG_0393 by John Smith, on Flickr
    Last edited by Vsurp; 04-12-2017 at 09:39 AM.
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    Also consider that since some handguards were made with one batch of stain while others with another. they could have diluted stain more depending on the guy who was doing it, they could have used different batches of stain over the years. one guy could have applied more and then waited longer for stain to penetrate before wiping down. at some point i remember they stopped staining altogether and started using stained shellac instead. and that's only variation that can happen at the factory. compound that by multiple ins and outs of the arsenal, where rifles would be refurbished, re-worked etc, introducing another level of irregularity.

    what makes folks tend to gravitate towards thinking that some year 'have to be' darker or lighter than another is the fact that majority of the kits we see come-in into the country were never issued an were demiled from either brand new or very lightly used guns. to folks who sell this stuff it means higher price, to importers who buy - it means more desirable product they will offer to consumer later. but in actuality, real world would make most guns that went into actual service and seen use (as oppose not just set in the storage depot) to be a patchwork of repairs, replacements, alterations over the years. but we see much fewer of those since as they live-out their gun-lives, wear-out and loose value and desirability in the eyes of the seller. however those IMO represent a true breed.

    depending on what you are looking for in your gun as a collector - perceived factory/new look correctness or correctness to a design as whole you might get yourself into a rabbit hole chasing down, sling of the same year and bayonets of the same date and color and make or even number matching. but reality is this matching rarely happened in real world, especially sling that were stored separately from rifles usually not even in the same room - because slings needed different storage conditions. and when orders came-in to issue 100 rifles out of storage, depo manager would pull 100 out of the box closest to the storage door, not shuffle hundreds of boxes looking for the right year and right color etc.

    that's my view on things. i don't sweat the numbers or colors or whatever else features US collectors artificially inflated and blew out of proportion just to make their pieces look better, pricier and their obsession more founded. i wish people stopped buying into this but unfortunately i'm too much of a realist to know this would never happen. as people shell-out real cash for their new/used toys they tend to automatically buy-in into 'true correctness' game because at the end of the day guns will be re-sold eventually and if you can make your gun's asking price higher than the price you paid for it 'more correct' look trend is here to stay.

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    I agree with you 100% about the reality I don't think anyone would argue that when you look at guns that have actually been used there very often a total mismatch of furniture and parts.


    I think what your missing is the fact that different people get different things out of this hobby.


    I for example am fine with a clone. For the most part if it looks the same on the outside then its good enough for me. But I totally get and respect why a lot of people want to get every single minute detail right. Things that nobody else would ever check but they know its right.


    With the time and effort people put into these builds I don't really know how you could say people are financially motivated to do this. I mean really...... I think this hobby makes a lot more people broke then rich me included lol


    Its a hobby............. as long as your having a good time your doing it right in my book...............

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    The 1992s were not refurbed. They were not via an ex Soviet supply.

    As for the color, the 90s AKSUs are a total mix match of colors sometimes.

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    Vsurp... do you have any handguards #'d 306?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stottman View Post
    The 1992s were not refurbed. They were not via an ex Soviet supply.

    As for the color, the 90s AKSUs are a total mix match of colors sometimes.
    I wish I would have bought some from stott now.

    Stott knows what I am saying, the mint 92's that Zib had were super dark.


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    The European market deact AKSUs were two seperate batches.

    The "new" 1990s were from an Austrian importer who supplies most of Europe, US importers, etc. Not sure where his came from, but doubtful it was direct from an ex USSR nation (Russia, Ukraine, etc) as he didn't seem to have any similar guns. Remember that the AKSU is/was also used in large numbers by police, prison guards, etc.. In some of the Baltics, the Police/Prison guard guns were the only guns the Soviets/Russians left behind.

    The "used" 1992s (and a few others) were from TransArms in Germany. As their earlier batches of AKs were imported from Bosnia via a Croatian broker, I would assume the same local for the AKSUs. It also makes sense as the early 90s were the perfect time for guns to flow out of Russia into a conflict zone.

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    I dont lose sleep (anymore) and rarely lose money (anymore) on swapping parts for projects. I know some people do, but I am in a position to horse trade now days. The biggest factor in not getting hung up on little bs details is buying a kit with all the right parts in the first place. That is the biggest most expensive lesson I learned, in time and money.

    You are preaching to the guy that didn't like the paint offered in the US and decided to geek out over it and fix it for everyone so i am already well down the rabbit hole.
    Last edited by techno; 04-13-2017 at 10:01 PM.
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    1992 Tula HG's - Help Please

    If anyone likes my HG's and has some dark Tula HG's in 80% or better condition I will gladly trade. I'll throw in half a bottle of paint


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    I hate to be a thread crasher but Mike, can you say for certain that at one time or another, if either factory added a stain or pigment on the wood "before" applying the shellac? Aside from any anti-fungal treatment, did they apply a stain specifically for the purpose of adding a colorant? I have always assumed that any toner or pigment that was added, was added into the shellac itself... That's why we see a variation in color, the initial mix is really dark, and get lighter as it keeps getting thinned down to stretch it out and finish a particular number of rifles... That is just my assumption based on what I have gathered over the years...

    Just throwing that question out there to see if we could get a definitive answer on that one way or the other...
    Last edited by AKMaadi; 04-20-2017 at 09:30 PM.
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    I've read a book many years ago and that's where it was mentioned. unfortunately it was not specific to which arsenal employed the practice or for how long. book was written and published in the 70s. i founded it when i was still in middle school searching for material for a school paper. you can say this was the book that started my interest in firearms design and development. i've read it over several times. there were many things in there i did not understand as it went into technical details a lot. few things that i did understand stuck with me for a while. staining was the one of them among other things. it was more focused on design and development history of Soviet firearms in general w/o indepth detail on manufacturing practices. and i wish i remembered author or name. although if i did it would probably make little difference. i really doubt you can finds obscure books from that era here in the US or even russia for that matter. That technical library i found it at hasn't existed for almost 15 years. closed due to luck of funding. so sorry, can't offer anymore info. now that i think about it AK-74 was not ever mentioned in the book. AKM was there though. i remember reading about variations and dificulties the faced during design. Famous story about AK left side-charging handle was mentioned in it. that's basically how i know that MK wanted to make it on the left side but the made him change it to the right side, so it doesn't dig-into soldiers back when rifle is worn across the back.

 

 

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