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How to deal with the corrosive primer situation >>>

26K views 75 replies 48 participants last post by  COMM BLOC 
#1 ·
Fear not corrosive primers my friends.

My good friend Mike Venturino (gun magazine writer and father of BPCR) and I have a trick for dealing with the hassles and misery of shooting with BLACK POWDER (and cleaning up afterwards) and this corrosive combloc ammo is NOTHING compared to all black powder. This Russky (Yugo, whatever) stuff is smokeless powder with corrosive PRIMERS only. Here's the simple secret.....................

When you go out for a shooting session, bring about 5 or 10 rounds of regular noncorrosive ammo with you. That's it. In this case Wolf or it's equivalent. After your all done shooting, load up the non corrosive ammo and blast away. It will clean/burn out all the corrosive bad stuff (at least by 90% if not more) and allow you to sit your rifle /pistol in a corner and not clean up right away (or at all). The only place on the weapon I'd be worried about AT ALL might be, possibly, the gas tube because of some blow by. But trust me, this technique DOES WORK and is oh so simple. :cool:

TRUST ME............. :wink:
 
#52 ·
Over the course of the past 25 years the only 7.62 ammo I have fired that was not corrosive was the occasional box of Federal soft point while hunting. Most of the truck load of ammo I have fired has been Chi-Com steel jacket-steel core or Russian "Made to Hunting Specs" hollow point or some brand of from God knows from where Eastern Europe surplus. To me that is part of the call of SKS and AK rifles..........the cheap ammo.........and we have burned a PILE of it.

Long ago we developed the procedure with black powder, Pyrodex and ammo of unknown origin.

After shooting pass a patch or two of soapy water down the barrel and dip a rag in soapy water a wipe off the fouling on the surface. I carry a thermos of hot soapy water to the range with me. Pass a couple of dry patches and wipe down thoroughly to remove the moisture.

When you get home or within a few hours of shooting;

Wash each and every part in boiling water and Tide or dish washing liquid. In the field you can shave bar soap and melt it in hot water over a camp fire or stove to clean with. If the metal part has a wooden part not easily removable take care to wash thoroughly without soaking the wood. Use brushes and pipe cleaners to reach all the essential hidden ports and nooks and crannies. When you get them scrubbed off clean, rinse with clean boiling water. This will heat the metal so hot you can not hold it with bare hands. As it dries it will flash rust if it is not heavily blued or Parkerized. Such parts should be oiled immediately after drying. Blued parts give you a little more time. You can use a hair dryer to expedite the process of through drying. As soon as the metal cools oil it down and wipe off the excess then reassemble.

I have never had a SKS or AK rust to the point of pitting or had the barrel wear beyond usefulness. However I demand chrome lined barrels in all my weapons that shoot surplus ammo.

Take the time to disassemble and clean your weapon and it will survive the ammo it was designed to shoot. To me the long cleaning process is as much a part of shooting surplus rifles and ammo as the time at the range.
 
#56 ·
To echo riddleofsteel, I tried several approaches on my 5.45 AR upper.

1) Windex down the bore, followed by a Boresnake. Next time I will use Slip 2000 gun cleaner also.

2) disassembled the bolt and carrier (which I had chromed, BTW) and dunked them in a mixture of 90% hot water and 10% Ballistol. I then rinsed out all of the parts thoroughly.

3) Windex the inside of the upper receiver

Dawn dish soap is spectacularly good at degreasing. In fact, I've heard from a credible source that they have even used it to clean up Russian chemical weapon factories.
 
#57 ·
I put 1800 rounds of 7N6 through a S&W M&P15R upper at a Viking Tactics class recently.

The "fire non-corrosive rounds before and after you shoot corrosive ammo" trick doesn't work, at least on ARs with a high round count....YMMV.

I read in the current Small Arms Review that boiling water or a WD40 douche seem to work best on cleaning rifle internals after corrosive ammo.

SuperTech engine degreaser (available at the auto section of walmart) seemed to do a good job of getting the gunk out. The area under the extractor and the front ring of the firing pin got really dirty.
 
#58 ·
I occasionally shoot corrosive 8mm mauser, .303 Brit, and 7.62 x 54R surplus and I mostly use hot water poured down the bore. I have read of a neat technique where you place the muzzle in a bucket of boiling hot water, then pump a wetted patch up and down the bore from the breech end so it will pump the water in and out of the bore while flushing the residue out. Ive got to try it sometime. However, I have found several commercial products that do a fine job on the effects fo corrosive primer salt residue.

1. Sweets 7.62 is great if you can can stand the staggering ammonia smell. It is also great at cleaning out the copper reisdue which is what it's really for. It also instills confidence in the gun owner because anything that smells that bad must really work. Don't use a bronze brush with this stuff. Clean it out with patches till dry then use a conventional solvent like Hoppees #9 (then using your brushes and patches) then oil it up with CLP or your favorite lube/preservative.


http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?p ... ber=643582

2. Shooters Choice Aqua Clean Bore Cleaner and also their Aqua Clean Action Cleaner. Both are water based, generally non-toxic, non-flammable, and odor free. They do a great job on corrosive ammo deposits. However, they are water based and you must be sure to oil stuff up as soon as it is dry to avoid rust. Don't spray on internals that are hard to get to with our blowing dry and spray lubing or you will get an unpleasent surprise like I did on my 1911 trigger mechanism. This stuff comes in spray bottles that last a long time and it is easy to apply where you want it.

http://www.shooters-choice.com/aqua_clean_bore.html

http://www.shooters-choice.com/aqua_clean_action.html

I do sometimes take a litttle windex to the range for a quick swab out before I start for home where I perform a thorough cleaning.

One other observation: Ammonia is a base, not an acid. Therefore, it is caustic, not corrosive.
 
#59 ·
I guess we each have our own theory about what works best. I shoot a lot of the Bulgarian surplus 5.45x39. In our Texas humidity it will rust your AK overnight. Previously used boiling water until I found Ballistol. I do not sell this stuff, but it has been excellent for corrosvie ammo use. Simply mix a 50/50 concentration with water. Ballistol emulsifies with water, one of the few products that does, and contiues to lubricate. It looks just like milk when mixed with water. I use a small Wal Mart spray bottle. After the range session remove your bolt/piston. Holding your muzzle down, spray directly into your gas tube. Wipe off the excess and follow with a good regular cleaning within the next couple of days. I then use Ballistol full strength on the bolt, gas tube and piston with a tooth brush. It's also the best carbon remover/rust preventative I have found, creeping to every nook and cranny. Additionally, I have found the rifle is much less prone to corrosion for the next session. No more boiling water. My two cents.
 
#60 ·
I've gone thru about 3k of corrosive Yugo M67. I live in Oregon and sometime shoot when humidity is 100%. I've seen rusting on rifles within 30 minutes of ceasing fire so I've gotten in the habit of cleaning the AKs before I leave the range.

I simply brush soapy water over the areas that get gas fouling on them, including a wet brush down the bore. Dry, then oil.

Last rifle match is rained the entire time we were shooting. I cleaned my AK in the rain and it went back into the soaked bag.

When I got home after about an hour I stripped the rifle down again and dried it. There was no rust.

As far as chemicals go I've been using Simple Green Aircraft cleaner. It's safe for aluminum (I have some alloy framed pistols) and works great for breaking down crud. It's also useful in the ultrasonic tank. For oil I've been using Aeroshell Fluid 18. It's a thin, creepy oil that is very close to the spec for Sov rifle oil.
 
#61 ·
I have a couple of questions that I'd like to get answered once and for all, if you guys could.

1. What is the deal with Wolf ammo? Is it necessary to treat it as "corrosive" ammo or not? I'm speaking of the Wolf in the black box 124gr? stuff, and the Wolf Military Classic JHP 122?gr stuff. (note: I MAY have the weights backwards so please correct me if I do)

2. What about the Ulyanovsk shown here? Mildly corrosive or no? http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AMM6407-1.html

3. Finally, what about Golden Tiger?

4. After purchasing a used Ak from the forums/Gunbroker/etc, what is the absolute best method for determining if the rifle was ever fired with corrosive ammo, and possibly never cleaned afterwards? I don't have a borescope, so what is the best method? I mean, I've always been worried about SLIGHT corrosion happening over time, and possibly not catching it before it's too late.
I know you can always just clean any used rifles I purchase, but I'm asking the above question, as it would pertain to a rifle that was purchased months ago, and as fate would have it, the seller wound up being a shady character (as far as honestly describing an item goes)
Who knows if he shot corrosive ammo or not? I just want to be sure there isn't mild corrosion happening. HOW can I be sure? Where do I look first?

Thanks guys.
 
#62 ·
has any one tried alchohol instead of water? i noticed it mentioned in an eariler post and i think ill give it a try. rubbing alchohol is cheap and unlike water will not rust your gun.

i live in WA state and any thing metal rusts FAST here, i fired some of that egyption 7.62 threw my AES-10b and followed it with 30rnds of wolf black box (i know 100% that its not corrosive)... the next morning the gun was covered in rust inside and out! the onley way ive ever been able to clean corrosive ammo residue succesfully was tons of solvent and very thorough cleaning.

-matt
 
#64 ·
Blue Wonder bore cleaner is my fav for cleaning after shooting corrosive ammo.
It is a water based gel and it disolves the the salts left behind quick and easy. It also sticks well on an old toothbrush I use for bolts, gaspistons, etc.

Just my 2 cents.
 
#67 ·
I hardly ever shoot corrosive ammo but when i do i always hose my guns down with Windex before i leave the range and then again really good within a few hours of getting home. Living in SW Florida your guns will rust within a day easily if not cleaned,i actually keep a bottle of Windex in my Jeep now just incase.
 
#69 ·
Another vote for Ballistol. An excellent cleaner and oil for any gun. I use it for both the cleaning and oil and rust protection, works perfect every time. Even good for the wood on your guns, and it's non-toxic, you can eat the stuff and it won't hurt you. Also neutralizes the corrosive salts. It's the only thing I use any more, no need for anything else normally.

Also, read about all it's many other uses, not just guns, amazing stuff. Link below with info.

http://www.firehawktech.com/Ballistol/firearms.html
 
#71 ·
The reason I much prefer it over WD-40 is that it's completely safe and non-toxic, doesn't matter what you get it on. Plus it can be used for a ton of different things. Even good for your engine, pour 1/3 to 1/2 can of the liquid into a full tank of gas for your car, helps clean the engine, seems to run smoother after you add it. One guy I know puts a whole can in with every full tank of gas for his Suburban, says it works great.

Also, mix with water and put a bucket over the roof of your car, goes into every crevice, rust protection. Just clean the windows so they are clear after it runs off. Leave the rest on the car. If the car has just been washed, you can rub it in to make the body shine. :)
 
#72 ·
Well, an even simpler way is to store your firearms in a very low humidity environment (climate controlled, desicant, de-humidifier, whatever you need to do).

Corrosive primers are only corrosive because the chemical compound (mercuric salt I think) is very good at 'pulling' water out of the air (humidity) and rusts your gun. Without humidity (water) your guns are not going to rust no matter how much corrosive ammo you shoot.

Put your gun in a very humid environment, or dunk it in water, and its liable to rust no matter what you do or dont shoot in it if it is not cleaned/oiled/protected.
 
#74 ·
tool box buddy. its a lucas oil product. go to buylucusoil.com and buy it cheap, stack it deep! i dont work for them or the website i mentioned but have had a time and a half dealing with non corrosive white box klimovsk destroying all my best shooters [over 20 pre ban aks etc] and have been shooting corrosive exactly like tomovich described til the klimovsk gun collection destruction inccedent. almost every kassnar and mitchell and maadi i own and other favorite shooters were hit by klimovsk white box corrosive primers in the barrels mostly past the gas port to crown, in crown, and pistons ate up in spots like random chuck holes. at the same time my shooting buddy phil had just found tool box buddy on accident at an auto store and had tried it on a nagant and its 100% efffective unlike everything else ive seen. the shit is truely magic. shoot corrosive and spray it down when your done letting the barrel drip dry against a shooting bench clean it then or later and clean it good and oil with a thin final coat and call it done. i always check each weapon a week or so later but like i said its magic.
 
#75 ·
brock, dont sweat buying non corrosive stuff in the 545 caliber. its much too expensive and prices and availability are always fluctuating due to the surplus being ever present and importers just not bringing non corrosive in like they used to. the silver bear spits zinc plating shards into your eyeball and the shooter just to the right of the gun. ive caught a few thru the dust cover rear catch hole while not shooting with a scope sighting in irons and my buddy lee was observing just to the right and he said he was getting hammered before i caught some. the best thing about 545 is the affordability and steel core ammo that used to cost 2 bucks a round and up. the accuracy of russian 7n6 ammo in a russian barrel is phenominal also. dont go against the grain just buy it cheap and stack it deep!
 
#76 ·
never had any probs out of any 545 ammo other than that silver bear in that new sgl-31-94 by the way. 545 is good to go!
 
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