I read a piece on The Firearms Blog about using 7.62x39 as a replacement for the .30-30 Winchester as a light .30 cal load in hunting rifles, namely for short action rifles (for reference, the ballistics of the .30-30 actually tend to be inferior to the 7.62x39 beyond about 100 yards, and in spite of using heavier bullets, really doesn't have more stopping power than the 7.62).
Of course, the .30-30 actually uses a shell casing longer than the .308 Winchester (7.62x52R vs 7.62x51), though it produces no more power than the 7.62x39 or the pud loaded 7.62mm NATO rounds that Japan used in the Type 64 automatic rifle or Spain used in the early CETME M58 rifles.
I'm wondering about the thoughts of would it be worth it for hunting deer-sized game, or as a combat/defense load, of using the .30 bullets out of the 7.62x54R to try and gain stopping power compared to the lighter standard loads for 7.62x39mm. What would the merits/negatives be?
There's already a commercial load for the 7.62x39 as stated above. The 154gr SP. I don't know how much heavier you could go with case capacity and seating depth along with being able to fit into the magazines. Even with a short action bolt rifle, you'll have limits. Am I making any sense?
....and deer size game are taken with much less than a 124 gr .30 cal all the time ( .223 is legal in lots of states ), so what's the appeal to a heavier bullet? As is, x39 with a good bullet ( Hornady, for instance ) is a good choice for a "woods" gun. ( <200yds )
I haven't loaded any supersonic full power loads with heavy projectiles but i have loaded plenty 7.62x39 subsonic loads from 150gn to 180gn. You will run into issues with the ogive on the 154gn 54R projectiles. It is too long of a taper and to get them to fit in the magazine you will have to seat them deep in the case and will be crimping on the ogive. It is possible i have done it for subloads but wouldn't recommend it. Speer makes a round nose 180gn .311 projectile and a 150gn SP I've got some expansion with these at velocities less then 1050fps. I had to modify the feed lips of a mag to feed the round nose projectiles reliably. I have recently been casting a 160gn pure lead projectile and powder coating them. They are actually coming out at about 168-170gn after powder coating. The powder coating acts as a jacket to prevent lead fouling so you can push them faster than un gas checked cast projectiles. This might be an option for you as well. These do well at subsonic speeds and I'm sure at supersonic speeds you can get nice expansion with a pure lead projectile. For instance from one of my ballistic apps for a .308 sub load pushing a 190 smk at 1044 fps you have roughly a little more muzzle energy of a 45acp at 300yds.
When i get back home this weekend to my notes i can. But all my sub loads for x39 are using IMR 4227 powder it works for me and it is whats locally available. I have loads that will cycle full-size ak's and SBRs. It is a good powder. I have loaded 123gr projectiles and kept them subsonic and they will still cycle in a krink and draco length gas system. I tend to run my sub loads a little slower to stay out of the transonic zone to achieve better accuracy. But also you tend to get a hiss from the projectile the faster you push it to that trans-supersonic threshold. I like to keep mine quiet as well .You will get some powder blowback into the receiver running the shorter barrel with a suppressor on. I have a AAC 762 SD. Heavy projectile loads will cycle short and full-sized aks but lighter projectiles will only cycle the shorter gas systems. I have done a lot of work to the tapco triggers to help smooth out the action. I have Trued all the matting contact surfaces and polished them and reprofiled the hammer mainly removing the steep angles and polishing them. Just for grins i picked up some 30 carbine 110grn projectiles and loaded them to see what would happen. I only loaded about 20 to test. I didn't want to fire many since they are undersized for a .310-.311 barrel diameter. They would not reliably cycle but stayed subsonic and stayed accurate to where i was aiming. Sorry OP for hijacking your thread
I read a piece on The Firearms Blog about using 7.62x39 as a replacement for the .30-30 Winchester as a light .30 cal load in hunting rifles, namely for short action rifles (for reference, the ballistics of the .30-30 actually tend to be inferior to the 7.62x39 beyond about 100 yards, and in spite of using heavier bullets, really doesn't have more stopping power than the 7.62).
Of course, the .30-30 actually uses a shell casing longer than the .308 Winchester (7.62x52R vs 7.62x51), though it produces no more power than the 7.62x39 or the pud loaded 7.62mm NATO rounds that Japan used in the Type 64 automatic rifle or Spain used in the early CETME M58 rifles.
I'm wondering about the thoughts of would it be worth it for hunting deer-sized game, or as a combat/defense load, of using the .30 bullets out of the 7.62x54R to try and gain stopping power compared to the lighter standard loads for 7.62x39mm. What would the merits/negatives be?
Not sure about using .30 out of a 762x54r. But there are plenty of various loads to be bought for the 54r as is, from lets say 150 to 203gr, fmj, sp's whatever. I think the best all around grain for ballistics in that cal is 175 to 190gr depending a bit on what you are doing. The ballistics are real close to .308, 3006, and 8mm mauser, give or take a little. Perfectly fine for deer hunting. As the vepr in 54r is the easiest to obtain in the usa in that cal, probably hunting is its best option as it comes with a 5 round mag. Some after markets offer ten rounders, but I'd stay away from the polymer 10 rounders, someone makes steel 10 rounders, forget the name though. With a ten rounder I might consider a dmr type application, but not as a regular defense weapon, not enough mag capacity for one, but second its kind of a beast to shoot, again think 3006, you'll need considerable more time for follow up shots ima.
I did alot of testing in 762x39, with most loads that were between 122gr to 125gr coming within 2 inches on height at 100 yrds, regardless of manufacture or bullet type, while also running similar groups of maybe 6 inch groups at 200yds. During the same tests I ran 154gr sp tula. it held close at 100yrds, but I want to say consistently 1-2 inches lower than the others at 122-125gr. Past 100yrds it really dropped off. I forget the exact number, but I want to say the 154gr was grouping 8 inches lower at 200yrds vs the 122-125gr. I think you could hunt deer with 762x39, but I'd want my shots within 100yds regardless of ammo. Past 100 yrds you may not get the results you want. Great defense round ima, heavy, hard hitting, but not as extreme as higher cals. You can still over penetrate, but its going a whole lot slower and is less likely to pass through a bad guy, a brick wall, and hit a bystander in the next county. Plus reliable 30 rnd mags.
I've loaded an shot quiet a few Sierra,Speer as well as Prvi Partizan .311 150 gr. jacketed SP bullet in my SKS rifles over the years with excellent results. One of my favorite heavy bullet loads is my Lee 185 gr. RN cast lead bullet under 22.0 grs. of IMR-4895. It's no speed demon but it will rock a steel plate an leave a nice deep dimple at 50 yds. Of course 155 to 160 gr. cast bullets are my standard fair in the SKS most all the time anyways.
I have 3 boxes of Hornady a max 168 g bullets and would like to try loading 7.62x39subsonic or even super sonic. From what I have read IMR 4227. Or. 1680 will be good powders. I will be shooting it thru AR’s with 16” or 20” barrels. I am just not sure ware to start on the powder charge
From my experience you can get an idea of starting load from 300 blackout sub load data. You have more case volume in the 7.62x39 so take that into account. For me with a full sized 16" ak with imr 4227 anything over 12 grains of powder from 150-190 grain projectiles i get supers. With shorter barrels from 8-10" inches i can load up to 12 grains and still stay subsonic. With my 300 blackout ar ive got a 6" barrel and run 165grain soft points at around 9.8grains of imr 4227. I try to keep my subs for autos below 1050 fps.
For me I'd like to find a heavy bullet and powder combo that would be subsonic and function even in a 7.62 non suppressed AK. Maybe some day I'll have time to experiment more.
For now I'm just happy to have components stored to load normal ball type stuff with better bullets. While the panic has made loading 7.62x39 seem better for those of us who stacked deep. I'll still be using my cheapo stuff first.
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