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comparison of 7.62x39 available ammo types- the good and bad aspects we should know

48K views 134 replies 30 participants last post by  Ivy_Runner 
#1 · (Edited)
its getting to be like a minefield out there these days trying to find an ammo brand that has less bad features or all the right ones your happy and shoot best with. wouldn't it be great if all the info on all brands was posted in one spot? if theres a forum like that somewhere feel free to post a link. it would be great to add all the info we can get on all brands over the decades and keep piling on that info until were in the know when we see something. I know ive been craving info on the ammo I often buy and go to shoot as all to often its damaging in different ways or just not up to specs. steel-copper bimetal shavings at case mouth or corrosive primers misadvertized come to mind.
if you've got it post it here with all the box, container, listed contents and ACTUAL when verified if corrosive or not and so on. feel free to jump in with pics, description, paper accuracy target tests anything that explains the dos and donts, the good and bad of each brand and type of 762x39mm ammo so we know which guns like what and all about what ammo we find, buy and hoard. heres some old Hungarian mfs ammo for starters. Microphone
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if anyone can jump in and say much about this one id like to know. my tests years ago in mid 2000s yielded that its definitely the dirtiest ammo ive ever fired. id like to know if its corrosive. ill take a magnet to the jacket and find out if its bimetal next. so far I see no sealant or case mouth metal shavings. ill disect a rd. and find out if air pocket steel or lead core exists. does anyone here have experience with this? last I had a few cases I shot it up in no time and didn't think much of it.

findings:
corrosive: to be edited
bimetal jacket: to be edited
fmj or fmjbt boat tail: to be verified and edited
lacquered steel case or other: lacquered steel case
primer sealant: no
accuracy: normal/average? to be determined
bimetal shavings stuck or loose on case mouth: to be determined after more close inspection
steel core: lead core iirc on test specimens, to be verified again and edited
air pocket in tip with reduced powder charge: tbd
123gr. as advertised: tbd
clean burning or dirty: dirtiest ammo ever on batch I tested in mid 2000s, this batch looks like the same stuff but came from a later different source.
reliability: reliable
 
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#2 · (Edited)
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heres another brand. this one catches a lot of folks off guard. its the very 1st edition of wolf military classic. its not advertised as laquer cased but it certainly is. the reason why is polymer case hadn't started being pushed yet by the Russians by request of us importers needing cheaper options.
the next batch of this that came in had slightly different boxes which is your first clue. the contents of the later version had polymer coated cases and no sealant at primer or case mouth. heck I think they even started taking the ''vapor barrier'' plastic rain cover out and reconfigured the cardboard case just to import the ammo a tiny bit cheaper in every way they could. these are big differences if you have mags, stripper clips or rifles that hang up with increased friction on the recent phenomenon of polymer cased but not laquered cased ammo. Cosmetics Lipstick Ammunition Material property Font
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findings:
corrosive: no
bimetal jacket: bi-metal
fmj or fmjbt: to be verified
lacquered steel case or other: lacquered steel case
primer sealant: yes, on both [primer and case mouth]
accuracy: accurate!
bimetal copper plated steel shavings stuck or loose near case mouth : no
steel core: no
air pocket in tip and light powder charge: no
124gr. as advertised: yes
clean shooting: yes
reliability: reliable
 
#3 · (Edited)
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next up I have is the ammo that I shot close to half a million rds of personally at increasingly lower [wholesale] prices until it got down to 60 bucks a case before it absolutely spiked high out of nowhere. 1st batch black box wolf! you guys who think wolf sucks think again. best ak ammo ever! the stuff they brought in later was a slightly different box and labeled as the same stuff. it was a very sick joke to monkey with the ingredients of this ammo. same as wolf military classic 1st batch as above. the black box wolf that came in before it was going strong for about 3 to 4 years before I ever saw anything called wolf military classic. both 1st batch types were later junked at the importers request.

findings:
corrosive: no
bimetal: yes
fmj or fmjbt: to be verified
lacquered steel case or other: lacquered steel case
primer sealant: yes on both
accuracy: accurate
bimetal copper plated steel shavings stuck or loose near case mouth: no
steel core: lead core
air pocket in nose with reduced powder charge: tbd
122gr. as advertised: tbd
clean shooting: yes, very
reliability: yes certainly, 100% out of 500 plus and counting 1000rd cases were reliable. no doubt.
 
#16 ·
next up I have is the ammo that I shot close to half a million rds of personally at increasingly lower [wholesale] prices until it got down to 60 bucks a case before it absolutely spiked high out of nowhere. 1st batch black box wolf! you guys who think wolf sucks think again. best ak ammo ever! the stuff they brought in later was a slightly different box and labeled as the same stuff. it was a very sick joke to monkey with the ingredients of this ammo. same as wolf military classic 1st batch as above. the black box wolf that came in before it was going strong for about 3 to 4 years before I ever saw anything called wolf military classic. both 1st batch types were later junked at the importers request.

findings:
corrosive: no
bimetal: yes
fmj or fmjbt: to be verified
lacquered steel case or other: lacquered steel case
primer sealant: yes on both
accuracy: accurate
bimetal copper plated steel shavings stuck or loose near case mouth: no
steel core: lead core
air pocket in nose with reduced powder charge: tbd
122gr. as advertised: tbd
clean shooting: yes, very
reliability: yes certainly, 100% out of 500 plus and counting 1000rd cases were reliable. no doubt.
Miss that old Wolf.
 
#4 · (Edited)
next up I have to compare is golden tiger vympel ammo. this ammo started showing up right when the black box wolf was drying up and the new black box wolf hadn't really hit yet. there was wolf military classic sporatically iirc when the golden tiger first showed up. when I tested my first 10 cases of golden tiger at 90. a case from the same ammo dealer I had been buying black box wolf and 1st gen mil classic from at earlier 60 then 65 then 90 a case and 90 a case on the latter type I wasn't impressed. I had 2 primers that wouldn't go bang then later a 3rd. all were out of the same golden tiger 1000rd case. I asked around and all I could come up with was that they stuck all the bad ones in one case maybe. compared to 100 percent reliability in 1st batch black box wolf this stuff was okay but it beats everything that came afterwards since is what im learning the hard way. the wolf mil classic 1st batch was good too but it was short lived. its as good as it gets in my book. golden tiger is all I hear about lately. apparently im an old geeser or something. wheres the beef?!!! Ammunition Bullet Gun accessory Material property Cosmetics
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it really creeps me out that this ammo might get cheapened but after seeing it hasn't yet in previous batches and hearing its all the same stuff every batch that imports im hoping it stays the same as it always has which is top notch.

findings:
 
#5 ·
ill update these ive referenced and many more as we learn and compare our results. if you guys pull out some other types and post em up it would be great to see this gain momentum. please add to the archive your findings. I know I have about 70 varieties or so but if some of you guys have the latest cheapened brands going around now or polymer, soft points or hollow points id be glad to see them archived since I cant handle that one without going out and buying ammo types I don't like shooting in some cases. please feel free to join in if you've got some!
 
#6 ·
ive not had any interest in anyone chipping in with advice or comments. was hoping to create a database of pros and cons of all the types. the idea stuck in my head but is a troublesome amount of work if theres literally no interest. im going to give this another go around to see if anyone can help at adding
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info or pics of stuff they have or have had experience with. early 2002 tiger ammo. blue box.
 
#7 ·
early us import Romanian ak ammo. this ammo I found at the hilliard ohio horse barn gun show in fall of 1998 or 99 being sold with Romanian wum-1 rifles. this is the first batch imported from Romania im pretty sure. boxes are brown cardboard sides with white top or white cardboard sides with white top. markings and contents are the same on both boxes regardless. the soft lead tip is a mess to shoot thru some sks and ak rifles since it has a tendancy to jam often on feedramp areas and barrels unchamfered for commercial ammo. lead shaves off and gets stuck in some very bad places and ends up in your face when you shoot so wearings eyeglasses while hunting with this ammo is not optional. this soft point ammo was a mess in my opinion. soft point slag size and primer sealant had no quality control whatsoever. Technology Electronic device
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#8 · (Edited)
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heres romy ammo 1at batch again. some closeups to show 4 out of 5 soft tips have overhanging disproportioned lead slag and primer sealant is kind of smeared on like a 3 year old girl putting on lipstick for the first time. not a confidence booster when you load up and shoot. otherwise quality is great. laquer cased. shooting this ammo cured me of ever wanting to shoot soft points again in ak or sks rifles.
 
#135 ·
View attachment 20421 View attachment 20422 heres romy ammo 1at batch again. some closeups to show 4 out of 5 soft tips have overhanging disproportioned lead slag and primer sealant is kind of smeared on like a 3 year old girl putting on lipstick for the first time. not a confidence booster when you load up and shoot. otherwise quality is great. laquer cased. shooting this ammo cured me of ever wanting to shoot soft points again in ak or sks rifles.

Just had my buddy slam a buck right in the thoracic cavity with exactly this ammo (found at a local gun shop). Watched it hit myself and saw the impact through a scope. The buck seemed to walk it off damn near. Out of a16 in. SKS.
 
#20 ·
that's early Russian hollow tip ya got there. all Russian ammo up until 2nd gen wolf came out a few years ago is top of the line high end stuff. my personal experience is a few jams here and there on older model guns made before commercial tip hunting ammo came out such as sks rpd and ak weapons without beveled feedramp upgrades. that's great ammo though. not plagued with problems at all like Russian ammo today. if you find out any info post your findings. I don't shoot a lot of hollow tip but its good to know if theres actually going to be a database definitely add your info on known specs. one thing interesting to find out to list about your ammo here is whether or not its the later narrow hollow tip upgraded ammo that jams 90 to 99% less of the time as opposed to early type wide nose Russian hollow points that met with poor success.
I'm enjoying reading about this. Thank you for posting.


A friend has some of this for sale?


Is it recommended?
 
#12 ·
I have a stash of Cheetah, apparently it's difficult to find anymore as it is no longer importable, and hasn't been for some time. Brass cased, Berdan primed 123gr FMJ, lead core, hot loads, clean, extremely accurate and reliable. Made in Zimbabwe. That's the extent of my knowledge on it.



 
#15 ·
Looks like some older Russian import. I have what I think is some of the same stuff, but with a tittle different markings on the top of the box. I have shot it in the past, and it is some of the best there is (or was anyways :p).

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Sample round has 711 marked at the top, and the year 94 at the bottom. Fine quality.
 
#18 ·
#24 · (Edited)
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oh my goodness! great ammo! not polymer but laquer cased surplus the unified east germans pulled the projectiles when this stopped coming over in wooden surplus crates and repacked it in these white boxes after replacing a lead core projectile in each round and recycled the steel core ones. I got my first maadi, an intrac dated 1993 when I was 14. every round I fired out of it until the barrel was long burned out was most all from this ammo. I could work at 2 bucks and hour on the farm and make enough from picking sweet corn and pumpkins etc and horse trading at flea markets and gunshows to buy all of this I wanted as a young kid. me and this ammo were attatched at the hip. all of mine was grey lacquered case corrosive but later I found some with copperwash steel cases dated 1969 arsenal 21. [not sure why but my computer freezes up with pics tonight, adding my 5 pics tomarrow]
 
#22 · (Edited)
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heres some more of the ammo above. great ammo! I was shooting east german white box surplus repacked ammo at 90 a 1000 when I bought a few packs of this at 20. per 120rd battle pack. had to buy it since my maadi was running low and the flea market had few options on sunday. circa 1995ish. funny how you remember stuff like that from when you were a kid. I was 15 years old then.
 
#25 · (Edited)
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notice how plain the early Russian ammo types were. there were many plain white box types like this. kind of like cold war military 20rd boxes that they just added info to printed on top vaguely giving some details as to what might be inside.
 
#29 ·
ill have to say. bimetal certainly looks like the norm. it never even dawned on me until recently ive been shooting it all along possibly. bimetal and hollow air pocket with reduced charge is common too looks like. this has been a learning experience for me so far and we haven't even got off the ground yet. would be great to disect each type of round to know whats in it. the golden tiger latest batch arrived on my doorstep today. its the same stuff in a similar 3rd variant golden tiger box. ive been wondering how common the hollow air pocket with reduced charge really is so maybe doing a cutaway of all types past and present would reveal a great treasure of information. im guessing now the bimetal jacket is more common than I had thought too so whether or not it was all or mostly copper at one time I cant wait to find out.

the latest batch of ''non corrosive'' klimovsk white box that actually has corrosive primers I dissected revealed a hollow air pocket reduced charge and bimetal jacket. I remember being amazed at that and how cheap it was but maybe, just maybe this is normal current issue ball ammo in Russia today?
 
#30 ·
can anyone chime in and explain the barnaul, vympel, klimovsk, ulyonovsk etc marketing and location meanings such as whats what? its still vague and hard for me to understand clearly but lots of name brands come from various plants. would be interesting to hear from someone who has some or all deciphered and could say Barnaul is also this marketed as this brand similar to such and such and vympel is also this or that which is military grade and so on explaining it better. ive had ammo dealers vaguely explain it but never all at once so I think theres part of the story here which ones scream quality and which ones were always just another contractor like maybe klimovsk. anybody know more about what im getting at here? I realize im being vague but the info was relayed to me vaguely.
 
#31 ·
theres likely a website we can find to link to that explains what cold war codes like arsenal 3, 270, 311, etc etc became what in post cold war years and picked up what logos on headstamps in their place. vympel currently uses a b logo or a Cyrillic r joined at top with a number 3 for instance. vympels names are currently ''golden tiger, amursk, amursk cartridge plant -vympel, etc. barnauls names are jsc barnual machine-tool plant, tiger [blue box], barnual, etc. with post war logo of Cyrillic b over a over c or e [poor Text Electric blue Label
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#38 ·
thank you joemomma. from your posts I saw that you can shoot a perfect score with polish 7n6. my polish 7n6 has bimetal shavings usually stuck in the case mouth sealant yet you scored super well. ive not shot any polish adter looking at it but the bimetal shavings are as rampant as the romy red army standard ammo I just bulked up on months ago without enough research. im curious if your barrel was damaged at all with little mirages or reflections where the copper coated steel jacket passed over the shavings mid bore. I ask because my akm barrel got damaged after only 90 rds is what I think happened.
 
#37 · (Edited)
what gave wolf the idea? we did kind of. us importers. wolf was the first I noticed to switch to polymer. the Russians know what works and what doesn't from endless r and d on manufacturing methods on ak ammo. importers needed cheaper ammo so the polymer cases started coming in and problems followed. the ammo was cheapened in many ways all at once. missing primer sealants etc. ammo started coming in with 500rd cases in smaller batches too so importers wouldn't lose their investment in huge gambles. heres why we needed cheaper ammo from the factory. importers up until the 3 to 4 years after 911 had decades of smooth brisk fairly leveled stagnated priced sales then customs started baby sitting ammo at cost per day on bonded warehouse space. the story I got from importers is this. you pay say 1 million bucks for 30 million rds of ammo then customs charges you 2000. bucks per day on bonded warehouse space while they inspect it for 2 to 4 years instead of a few months. the cost in many cases is 5 times what it used to cost. some ak ammo shipments from Europe to usa have actually been rediverted to mexico after not clearing customs after 4 years. other avenues of approach have been taken also to curtail ammo so prices will continue to increase unless we get rand paul or someone to fight it. as for polymer cased ammo I think it will be around for a while but lessen in popularity eventually. that's just my guess but I think laquered case will be back in force. people are starting to figure it out lately I think.
 
#40 ·
romanian red army standard 1st batch initial product line that weve been discussing off and on. here it is.this stuff is not to be confused with Bosnian or Ukrainian red army standard. century markets the name and sources the ammo from various places around the world. Tin Metal Auto part Rectangle
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