yawn! the army is considering replacing the m4 and the m16!!!!!

View Poll Results: would the .gov replacing the m4 mean good things for collectors??????

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Thread: yawn! the army is considering replacing the m4 and the m16!!!!!

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    yawn! the army is considering replacing the m4 and the m16!!!!!

    http://www.businessinsider.com/us-ar...changes-2017-5

    this story has come and gone so many times, i feel like this article is fake.

    i read an article saying its all being replaced, then i read an article stating they're keeping it for the next 20 years.



    i know it's not fake story, but it vaguely mentions the same tired old adage that "the m16 has had problems in afghanistan with jamming, a problem the rifle has had since its inception."

    of course we know that while the m16 m4 is not perfect, it's not nearly as jam prone as this vauge reference copied and pasted by some non gun guy journo-fucktard implies.....

    it goes on to say that the marine corps is considering equipping every marine with an IAR, and how this would offer increased range and lethality

    now....i am not an expert.

    but just how exactly would an hk m27 offer increased range and lethality.

    M4: 14.5 inch bbl

    m27: 16.1 inch barrel

    m4: uses 5.56

    m27: uses 5.56

    not exactly an earth shattering difference in muzzle velocity, and same caliber.

    i mean does this even deserve a SMH?????



    Im going to post a poll. From a "civilian" perspective of the shooter/collector.....would YOU like to see the m4/m16 replaced?

    I'm not asking whether the m4/m16 is superior/inferior from a technical/battleworthiness standpoint. I do NOT want to wade into that tired old topic.

    But.....im curious what you think....if they started getting rid of it all would it mean good things for collectors?

    Ie, what are the chances we would actually get cheap uppers or something? Slim to none, even under trump, im sure. They'll idiotically keep in place whatever fucking regulation about everything must be destroyed. The usual genius of our corrupt, dying evil empire.

    Would it mean cheaper 5.56 surplus ammo?

    Personally I would like to see it replaced, not because it really needs it but sheerly out of curiosity of what comes next. And I guess it would make all of our m4s just a tiny bit more quaint and collectible.

    I do suppose the hk piston operation is more reliable/forgiving of lack of maintenance, so that alone would be an improvement. Crazy to say how $33 million to give 11,000 marines a slightly better rifle...that's chump change compared to all the vast sums the big weapons contractors and gov contractor parasite trash in general steal on a daily basis........we shouldnt be in these sandbox wars anyway but i thoroughly enjoy how as long as we're there....with the money our gov wastes we could probably equip every soldier marine and his dog with a damn m27, and it would be literally nothing to the budget, and it would save one or two lives to give them a marginally better rifle.

    i know there's other issues with replacing millions of rifles other than cost, but the point is soldiers and marines are the last item on the list to get care and attention....when it comes to equipment and don't even get me started on health care for them....



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    Last edited by mike_r123; 05-12-2017 at 04:05 AM.
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    Yes, let's all replace the ancient old poodle shooter 5.56 and absolutely spotless cleaning every time M16/M4 or it'll jam because no real man wants to shoot anything less than a .30cal battle rifle weighing 10 pounds with a 4 pound magazine and an extra 20 pounds of ammo.

    After all, that money we might waste on actually training soldiers, sailors, marines, and airmen to shoot would be wasted; it's much better to give them a bigger round and a new rifle so the wheels of the military-industrial complex keep on turning.

    Re: Surplus -- The DOD is prevented from selling surplus ammunition to the public. I'm pretty sure the same remains true for other rifle parts and articles of war.
    "Men who are not free... always idealize their bondage." - Boris Pasternak

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    remember the movie idiocracy? that's what were raising in our schools and cities. its a big ole farming project of mindless sheep. gotta have a military that's like super simplified childrens toys now. sure wish mike judge had made an idiocracy part 2 and covered all this already.

    they have been testing every 4 years to replace it for the last 30 plus years though I thought. its always budget related when something improved is selected or available and not feasible at that time or administration.
    DISCLAIMER; I live in a murderous world imploding over other folks secret agendas. in doing so im told to pretend to act ''normal'' like everyone else and hide under a rock and make normal sheep noises. kinda like a sheep watching its family being led into an automated meat grinder. think about the other sheep saying don't draw attention to yourself they might target you next. F*#K THAT! stand up and make a last stand for humanity! Robbie f*#king parker were live! WAKE THE F*#K UP!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walleye View Post
    Yes, let's all replace the ancient old poodle shooter 5.56 and absolutely spotless cleaning every time M16/M4 or it'll jam because no real man wants to shoot anything less than a .30cal battle rifle weighing 10 pounds with a 4 pound magazine and an extra 20 pounds of ammo.

    After all, that money we might waste on actually training soldiers, sailors, marines, and airmen to shoot would be wasted; it's much better to give them a bigger round and a new rifle so the wheels of the military-industrial complex keep on turning.

    Re: Surplus -- The DOD is prevented from selling surplus ammunition to the public. I'm pretty sure the same remains true for other rifle parts and articles of war.
    yes indeed.

    i guess the theory would be this: if the military theoretically stopped purchasing all this ammo from places like lake city, lake city would have a ton of surplus capacity that theyd be forced to sell to the civilian market, maybe at lesser cost???

    we can dream
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_r123 View Post
    yes indeed.

    i guess the theory would be this: if the military theoretically stopped purchasing all this ammo from places like lake city, lake city would have a ton of surplus capacity that theyd be forced to sell to the civilian market, maybe at lesser cost???

    we can dream
    You're talking about people that will cut down perfectly good oak and elm trees, then pay a contractor an incredible sum to come in and plant new trees, then turn around and complain they don't have any money to cut down dead pine trees.
    "Men who are not free... always idealize their bondage." - Boris Pasternak

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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_r123 View Post
    yes indeed.

    i guess the theory would be this: if the military theoretically stopped purchasing all this ammo from places like lake city, lake city would have a ton of surplus capacity that theyd be forced to sell to the civilian market, maybe at lesser cost???

    we can dream
    thats not how the system in place currently works but whats amazing is how our money broke and greedy folks increasingly often break past the political insanity of junking new stuff and it finds its way to us in the same fashion it does in the so called 3rd world shit holes. money talks here just like in mexico in some cases. at least now it does.
    DISCLAIMER; I live in a murderous world imploding over other folks secret agendas. in doing so im told to pretend to act ''normal'' like everyone else and hide under a rock and make normal sheep noises. kinda like a sheep watching its family being led into an automated meat grinder. think about the other sheep saying don't draw attention to yourself they might target you next. F*#K THAT! stand up and make a last stand for humanity! Robbie f*#king parker were live! WAKE THE F*#K UP!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walleye View Post
    You're talking about people that will cut down perfectly good oak and elm trees, then pay a contractor an incredible sum to come in and plant new trees, then turn around and complain they don't have any money to cut down dead pine trees.
    perfectly good money not be printed if they dont! hahah!
    DISCLAIMER; I live in a murderous world imploding over other folks secret agendas. in doing so im told to pretend to act ''normal'' like everyone else and hide under a rock and make normal sheep noises. kinda like a sheep watching its family being led into an automated meat grinder. think about the other sheep saying don't draw attention to yourself they might target you next. F*#K THAT! stand up and make a last stand for humanity! Robbie f*#king parker were live! WAKE THE F*#K UP!!!!

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    I'm so freaking tired of this non-story.

    Change weapons systems and they'll have to change everything related to the weapon.. from training to supply logistics and so on.

    It's not gonna happen any time soon. They need to fix the waste and abuse first and that will definitely never fucking happen. "Waaaaaaah we're so poor we need funding....sell surplus? fuck no destroy that shit, leave it overseas what's the worst that could hap... oh."
    Arik likes this.
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    The Military will get around to replacing the M16 series sooner or later. When they do, I hope they take a good look at the SCAR, or something like it in 6.8, or 7mm short.
    I had a chance to play around with a SCAR light several years ago, and all in all, it was not bad. A good friend of mine in SF said they had lots of problems with the stocks breaking on the SCAR light, but he had lots of praise for the SCAR heavy he used in Asscrackastan with an Elcan scope.
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    Quote Originally Posted by COMM BLOC View Post
    thats not how the system in place currently works but whats amazing is how our money broke and greedy folks increasingly often break past the political insanity of junking new stuff and it finds its way to us in the same fashion it does in the so called 3rd world shit holes. money talks here just like in mexico in some cases. at least now it does.

    my understanding was that the lake city ammo in the 420 round ammo cans, for example, was either factory 2nds (but good enough), or true surplus/overrun, that they are ALLOWED to sell?????

    but you mean to tell me.....that if theoretically the .gov just stopped buying 5.56 altogether, lake city, or whoever, would not have the right to take their EQUIPMENT and just dedicate it to civilian 5.56 production instead of military contracts?

    are you saying basically the contract is set up so that.....if they stop selling to the government, then they have to like stop using that equipment altogether? like it's...quasi government owned or something? and of course the only sensible thing to do with a bunch of machines that can probably only make 5.56 ammo.....is to sell them to private industry who can use those machines to produce something of value and enjoyment to....oh WAIT! no that's not the government way.

    if they stop selling to the government i guess they would have to essentially put a satchel charge on the machines and blow them up so no one can get value out of them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_r123 View Post
    yes indeed.

    i guess the theory would be this: if the military theoretically stopped purchasing all this ammo from places like lake city, lake city would have a ton of surplus capacity that theyd be forced to sell to the civilian market, maybe at lesser cost???

    we can dream
    More likely they would simply gear up and produce the new round.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ross View Post
    More likely they would simply gear up and produce the new round.
    now that i think of it i guess that's true

    i was thinking maybe the 5.56 equipment is somehow dedicated to 5.56, and it would be cheaper for them to just build new equipment for the new round, thus leaving the old equipment just sitting there and......hopefully used to make civilian
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeMomma View Post
    The Military will get around to replacing the M16 series sooner or later. When they do, I hope they take a good look at the SCAR, or something like it in 6.8, or 7mm short.
    I had a chance to play around with a SCAR light several years ago, and all in all, it was not bad. A good friend of mine in SF said they had lots of problems with the stocks breaking on the SCAR light, but he had lots of praise for the SCAR heavy he used in Asscrackastan with an Elcan scope.
    Years ago they should have adopted the FN FNC and got rid of that dreaded wet bolt rifle.
    recon likes this.

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    I was reading some of the new contracts they put out a few weeks ago and IIRC they are looking for an off the shelf 7.62 NATO rifle as an interim replacement and they are planning on doing testing on three new cartridges (between 5.56 and 7.62 but I don't remember what they are) sometime in the early 2020s. I have two issues with this.

    1. The army has been obsessed lately with the idea of fighting in super cities etc, why go to 7.62 if we plan to train to fight in a mega city?
    2. The stryker was originally only a temporary vehicle until they decided they didn't want to pay to replace it and now the army is stuck with it. I see a high chance of that happening with a 7.62 rifle

    edit:
    Here is an article about it.
    US Army Considers Adopting an Interim Battle Rifle in 7.62 NATO - Soldier Systems Daily
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