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  1. #1
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    PSL 20" heavy barrel

    Waffen Werks is going to build a small batch of 100 heavy fluted barrel PSL rifles.

    The concept as drawn will use our square back receiver with a NATO length shoulder stock or an adjustable unit made from aluminum. The bolt carrier will have the piston and piston snout cut off just ahead of the charging handle and a hardened plug inserted in the bolt carrier for the new piston to ride against. The adjustable gas block will have an integrated front sight as part of it.

    We will use an adjustable gas block with a Vz 58 style piston (removable and smaller + lighter than standard). The adjustable gas block along with the better gas piston system should increase accuracy of the rifle and help offset the added weight of the heavy barrel.The barrel flutes will start just in front of the rear sight base and stop just short of the adjustable gas block. The flutes will resume just ahead of the gas block and stop about an inch behind the muzzle. I want to leave enough room for threads and a thread protector. (a can would be a nice option for this rifle)

    We are also kicking around the idea of machining a block to insert and rivet into the receiver just under the front trunnion to use for attaching a bi-pod or a long free floating lower handguard to use for a bi-pod and or a sling.

    What do you guys think?

    I am wanting to put as many good ideas into these before we go any further. I will be ordering the first 10 barrels for experimentation this coming week.

    Please let me know if I am wasting my time or just plain weird?

    Thanks to all for any comments good, bad, or indifferent.
    Keith

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    Re: PSL 20" heavy barrel

    I'm probably going to be the lone dissenter here, but I think you're trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

    The PSL is a fun gun, I have two, one original style, and 1 truck gun, with the square cut receiver that I picked up from WW.

    However, having said that, I think the free-floated barrel, fluting, heavy barrel, piston set-up and the bipod attachment are all GREAT ideas, but in my opinion, you're going to price yourself out of the market for a gun that still shoots 7.62x54r.

    Figure even a rock bottom PSL goes for $500, add in the custom made barrel, the gas system, and all the other modifications, and I'm guessing you're looking at anywhere from a $1000-$2000 rifle, depending on how much profit/return you are looking to get.

    But then again, if they actually become as accurate as the Dragunov once the mods are made, I can see them selling too...

    I want to see how things turn out and find out what the final pricing is going to look like.

    Make it idiot proof and someone will build a better idiot...

  3. #3
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    Re: PSL 20" heavy barrel

    gas system = no free float
    i think the cost of the product will stop a lot of the guys liking it.
    bringing manufacturing back to the USA like other guys!
    www.mygunsnorthwest.com for contact info
    www.gunsnorthwest.com for the parts in stock

  4. #4
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    Re: PSL 20" heavy barrel

    I've got a similar project in the works as well. It will be interesting to see what you guys come up with.

    PS: Mine will be truly freefloated

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    Re: PSL 20" heavy barrel

    i'd be interested in a thicker barrel for my PSL,.. pretty sure i cant swing the $$$ for a completely new gun right now.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying Whom shall I send? And who will go for us? And I said Here am I, Send me ISAIAH 6:8

  6. #6
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    Re: PSL 20" heavy barrel

    Thanks for all of the comments guys.

    I may not have been very clear in my post about the "free floating" handguard. I am referring to the handguard not to the barrel.

    The barrel will have the gas system touching it for obvious reasons but I have some ideas to help minimize the amount of influence that the gas tube and piston have on the barrel. Not eliminate it but minimize it.

    The lower handguard would not touch the barrel or anything except the one attaching point at the lower front of the receiver. In other words it will not adversely effect cooling of the barrel and should not hurt accuracy of the rifle.

    We should be able to keep the price well below the $2000.00 mark with some really nice IOR Valdada glass on it, a bi-pod, mags etc. In other words a complete package ready to go shoot.

    Still a big purchase but if the gun shoots really well not nearly as high as some of the semi auto sniper type rifles that come to mind.

    That all said about the mechanics of the system. The round is also being questioned. Their are some really good hunting type rounds available in this caliber from European manufacturers.

    I personally own a bolt gun that will group consistently around 1.25 inches, at 100 yards with Czech silver tip mil surplus ammo. Yeah, I know, a bolt gun not an auto loader. It is a finish military surplus rifle with glass on it but I really think the cartridge is not such a slouch. I would like to find out just how well it can group in an auto loading rifle.

    We have thousands of these PSL kits coming, the rest unfortunately without the barrels. If we are going to have to order new barrels we are going to go a few steps further and build something that is a real attempt at improving the rifle. So this is one of the concepts that we have in mind.

    I am still on stage waiting for rotten fruit, cat calls or spare change to be thrown at me. So please speak up and let us know your opinions. I do very much appreciate all comments, ideas or advice.

    After all, if we build one rifle that only I like, I will keep it myself. If we build 99 more of them and no one else wants them. I have failed. I really do not want to fail. We need to know what the folks that we are trying to serve want, and build it.

    Please speak up, we will listen.

    Thanks to all of you.
    Keith

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    Re: PSL 20" heavy barrel

    so thick barrel and unique handgaurd.....
    it seems everyone likes the side folding stocks these days. are you going fixed on these?
    milled receiver would be kool.

    so you are going to try and make a sks type gas system too? do you think the receiver will hold the carrier with out binding from this?
    bringing manufacturing back to the USA like other guys!
    www.mygunsnorthwest.com for contact info
    www.gunsnorthwest.com for the parts in stock

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    Re: PSL 20" heavy barrel

    I think you should go for it.. hopefully the improvements would be enough to make it more marketable than the Romanian built ones... right now their biggest selling point is being cheap.

    if you were to polish up the rough bits AND improve on the design... Definitely have something there.
    I am trader 10G - Whatcha got? Whatcha lookin' for?

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    Re: PSL 20" heavy barrel

    Once again, I may be the oddball here, but when you say you have so many kits coming in, but minus barrels, my first thought it "What other calibers could you do with the existing parts?"



    The AK-54R is an awesome set up, and I still am interested in getting one myself, but on the off chance that the caliber dries up or gets more expensive, what other calibers COULD you rebarrel a PSL in? 30-30? 30-06? 308? 357 magnum? or 44 mag?

    Just playing with ideas...
    Make it idiot proof and someone will build a better idiot...

  10. #10
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    Re: PSL 20" heavy barrel

    I do like the thoughts of one in a .308 though.

  11. #11
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    Re: PSL 20" heavy barrel

    Quote Originally Posted by turbothis
    milled receiver would be kool.



    still waiting on you to make one!


    i would love to have a milled PSL with a barrel that was the same thickness as a RPK-47 or thicker.


    ETA: back on topic,. i think that 2K is alot to ask,. and i know that includes a sweet scope and all but i think it will sell better sans glass,. but definatly keep the option for buying the complete system open.

    i know with my slightly moded PSL i am planning on running a Bushnell Elite 3200 10x40 mil-dot once i get a proper mount machined by my local smith. i know exactly what kind of scope the 3200 elite is (i have a PH 3-15x50, Vortex Razor, & Leupold Mk4) but its already paid for and it is not currently mounted on anything. besides if it is good enough for the bolt action Barretts it should be fine on my PSL.
    Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying Whom shall I send? And who will go for us? And I said Here am I, Send me ISAIAH 6:8

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    Re: PSL 20" heavy barrel

    308 or 8mm (M76 I know, but you could have a setup for mag commonality) would be cool, but would the rimmed vs non rimmed bolt present a problem?

    Additionally, on the topic of glass, I would think that it would better to leave it up to the customer. Perhaps a mount, but that's about it.

  13. #13
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    Re: PSL 20" heavy barrel

    To all of you that have posted up comments. A sincere thank you.

    We have looked at other calibers.

    And as at least one of the posts have commented on, the rimmed 54R has a bolt with a very large bolt face. In other words we would end up producing new bolts to go along with the new barrels.

    Then the magazine issue comes up next. New mags in various calibers is a worthwhile investment.

    But which caliber to go with.

    7.62 x 54R has and is being used by many countries for several decades. It is less expensive than many of the other calibers that would be in the running for a new rifle but it will someday dry up.

    I don't expect that it will dry up for a few decades, at least not with out the help of the bureaucrats in DC.

    I most like the idea of the 8mm (M76) rifle. That caliber is now getting a bit expensive but it does get surplussed from time to time.

    All of these comments are much appreciated and are being taken into coinsideration.

    Please keep them coming. I am not discounting anyone's ideas here, just letting all of you know that I am listening and thinking about all of this.

    Thanks again.
    Keith

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    Re: PSL 20" heavy barrel

    One suggestion when going to the scope mount would be go with the one that will center the scope directly over the center as it would work for both right and left handed shooters.

    Would also go with the Hogue pistol grip as it will also soak up some of the perceived recoil.

    While this will never be an M-24 sniper rifle, it should not be thought of that way. Should look at it as a DMR that could be compitition to a M-14 or Draganov. With a successful test by civilians here in the US it 'could' lead to some lucrative military contracts to friendly governments that are already using the PSL like Iraq and Afghanastan.

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    Re: PSL 20" heavy barrel

    The PSL is nice, but it just hasn't gone anywhere for me. From my standpoint as a consumer, yes 54r is cheap and is out there, but beyond the spectrum of comm block weapons, there aren't that many host rifles for it, and it would require getting a new caliber.

    There are for, for me at least:
    DP28 ($$$) (Mag too big for Ohio)
    PKM or Gory ($$$$) (Cut the belts)
    SVT ($$+.5$) (Old, parts not available in every shop, finicky mags sometimes)
    PSL ($$) (Doable, parts are there at most online vendors, recent production)
    and Mosin ($-) (Nor really interested)

    I don't have any contacts in Russia or the Ukraine for backup or other parts, nor do I want to get involved with importing either....

    Whereas in other calibers, such as .308, you have a whole slew of other rifles that are of modern manufacture with multiple variations, with parts that can easily be obtained at most shops, shows, online, or from the manufacturer themselves, such as...

    HK91/G3 series (K, different stocks etc)
    FALs (Think DSA selection)
    AR10s
    M14s
    SCAR
    Remington 700, other bolts etc...

    (Notice that something AK type is missing, beyond some saigas which would need parts changed out)

    Of which, the ammo can be found in all different grades, from surplus, to good stuff, to match stuff right out of the box from the manufacturer, to other hunting loads, at most types of retail outlets or shows.

    8mm, again, a surplus round with possibly limited supply, but one that has made it into modern US production and exists within the hunting platform as well and in the reloading world for quite some time.

    Would 54r be nice to have, sure, but it would be an eventuality once all the other bases (and storage facilities for crates of ammo ) had been covered.

 

 
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